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narcogen
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BTW, titles are longer now-- and don't add NT manually [NT]


Rampant for over se7en years.



no7orious
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I think you've missed several obvious uses...

It's tight integration with someone's macintosh makes any other player not much of a contestant here is why:

1. It is a FIREWIRE hardrive basically with ram and a processor to boot. Even if you could use the jukebox as a hard drive it's slow USB port would make it extremely slow for anything other than backup or transfer. On the other hand with the iPod you have firewire speeds: fast enough to boot OS X off of, or play your favorite game or ... whatever you might use that space for.

2. The interface : Although there is only one included game (breakout) I am sure that rather quickly the Macintosh community will start making their own games and other items for the device.

3. This peice is likely a part of Apple's digital hub: When one finally comes out you could hook it up to your palm-like device through the firewire and do things with documents and other applications included with it. This is the small simple Firewire hard drive that will give everything else more storage.

I don't think anyone with a Mac should consider anything else before they consider what apple may be releasing in the future. Also judging by the secrecy this project managed to stay in I wouldn't be surprised if the team that made this will have other projects in the works.

It is an exciting time to own a mac... or be alive... or whatever

*NM* *NM*

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: Worthy Alternative

:

  • Transfer speed: FireWire vs. USB is no contest, but
    : over the 5 months that I've been using this MP3 player, I've
    : only once had to transfer a large amount of music (when I
    : first loaded my MP3s onto it). Subsequent loads have all
    : been relatively small, finished in a few minutes. I think
    : this would be typical of most users, too--once you load
    : music on, you don't have to load it again, and the only time
    : you're likely to transfer a huge amount of music is the
    : first time you load it (and leaving it connected overnight
    : is no big deal).

    Yeah, and leaving my modem on all night will get that new game demo downloaded, too. Doesn't mean that DSL wouldn't be better ;-)

    I think your jukebox does sound like a good buy, but the ability to use the iPod as an external hard drive, too, seems to make it the best for anyone who already has firewire. Copy your work files (and any games you don't want your boss worrying about) to it at home in a few seconds, listen to your music on the way to work, then plug it in at your work machine. at the end of the day, drop the stuff you need to work on at home into it and repeat the process.

    It just seems like a really handy little device. I'd get one if I had $400 to spare and a firewire-equipped pmac ;-)

    Darks

  • Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Hard drive capability and Firewire

    :
    : Yeah, and leaving my modem on all night will get that new
    : game demo downloaded, too. Doesn't mean that DSL wouldn't be
    : better ;-)

    That's a bit oversimplified.

    :
    : I think your jukebox does sound like a good buy, but the
    : ability to use the iPod as an external hard drive, too,
    : seems to make it the best for anyone who already has
    : firewire. Copy your work files (and any games you don't want
    : your boss worrying about) to it at home in a few seconds,
    : listen to your music on the way to work, then plug it in at
    : your work machine. at the end of the day, drop the stuff you
    : need to work on at home into it and repeat the process.

    Well... it needs to be understood that this ability is not particularly special... Other, much much cheaper MP3 devices support the capability to operate as external drives as well.

    AND they're cross-platform, supporting MacOS AND Windows AND even Linux. (Apple had to get really huffy and push the Mac with a somewhat more artificial limitation. The problem with that being that their iPod isn't going to sell any better for doing it, whereas it could be out there building the Apple name otherwise)

    :
    : It just seems like a really handy little device. I'd get
    : one if I had $400 to spare and a firewire-equipped pmac
    : ;-)
    :
    : Darks

    Yeah, it's really sexy. Nice case. Compact. Though if I return to the PC world at some point in the future (which depends upon where Apple takes hardware design - like adopting technologies which have been around for a year now in the PC world - and OS X, because I'm willing to accept the limitations of a new OS for a while, but only for a while. Provided that they continue to improve it along certain lines.)

    However, I've got to criticize the idea that adding Firewire (and $150 or more) to the iPod really makes it /that/ much better. (I'm reposting this from another area where I originally wrote it)

    Firewire maxes out at 400Mbps (50 megabytes/sec) . If you're transporting a full 5 gigs across to the iPod (which you may do ONCE) then you're talking about a minimum time of around 103 seconds. If it's running at a slower FW speed, then you're talking about something like three minutes or more. That's damn impressive, but we're not finished.

    Now... USB. USB1 runs at 12Mbits/s (1.5 megabytes/sec). USB2 is 40x as fast as USB1, bringing it into competition with Firewire for pure data-pushing power. And it may not be as expensive.

    If you talk about transferring 5 gigabytes of data then you're talking about a minimum time of 56.8 minutes with USB1 or 1.7 minutes on Firewire. Still sounds awfully sexy. However:

    - You'll likely only transfer a five-gig block ONCE. Otherwise, you're normally talking about much smaller packages on a day-to-day basis, like perhaps 50-100 megabytes at a time. (which would literally only take only a minute or two in USB1. YAY! So why pay $150 more for something you may not really need?)

    - As far as data transfer, you are limited by two things: the hard drives on both ends of the cable. So the maximum data throughput of the cable being used isn't necessarily the final say on the matter, and you are not going to necessarily get a data rate as pretty as Firewire (or even USB2) may initially may it appear.

    - Ultimately, you /do/ have to compare prices vs. performance. And for price/performance ratio, you're talking about some MUCH better deals here: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/mp3.shtml (pay special attention to the Archos devices - note that one has 4x the storage for roughly the same or less money)

    Something to think about.

    Also... since USB is much more ubiquitous, you can expect to be able to use USB-capable MP3 devices with many more computers. (But then, I guess Apple "fixed" that by limiting the iPod's compatibility to its very newest Powermacs)

    - Noc

    narcogen
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    You refuse to believe...

    ... what is painfully obvious to most of us.

    The iPod is not an MP3 player.

    It is a Macintosh peripheral that plays MP3 files (as well as AIFFs). Because it is a new Mac peripheral, it uses the new Mac standard I/O for file transfer-- which is FireWire, not USB (1 or 2).

    Its job is to be a value-add for those who own or are considering purchasing Macintosh hardware anyway. It's not reasonable to suggest that they expect any great number of users to defect to MacOS just to use a music player that doesn't peg the peak of the price/performance curve.

    It's to showcase the tight integration between hardware and software that Apple can achieve because they do both, as well as their ability for industrial design.

    Compared to the iPod, most of the players on that page look like sophomoric doodlings of C- industrial design students; the Archos players in particular.

    And compared to iTunes, MusicMatch also is an exercise in frustration.

    The combination of a Mac, iTunes and the iPod isn't designed to deliver more storage or speed per dollar than a Windows or Linux PC and a less expensive HD-based player; it's designed, like the Macintosh itself, to deliver an aesthetically more pleasing experience of managing and playing MP3 music.

    If you had it support other player software, then part of the iPod's image is tarnished by that program's limitations, and extra development effort and dollars is taken away from developing features unique to the Mac platform. (although again, nevermind-- it's a hard drive, I guarantee someone will hack a way to do this very soon). But Apple shouldn't be spending its money making peripherals for other platforms. This isn't a compatibility issue like having MS Word on the Mac with similar file formats; it's like Apple putting a PS/2 plug on the Apple Mouse; it doesn't make any sense. Mice don't sell systems, and Apple isn't in the Mouse business. They're in the Mac business. But just because mice don't sell systems doesn't mean they shouldn't make their own mouse for their own systems, that will work better with their systems than with others because they make both the system and the mouse. The benefit here is slim because a mouse is a really simple device, but the theory is sound.

    To avoid the iPod from suffering from association with programs with thumb-in-your-eye interfaces like MusicMatch, you'd have to port iTunes to Windows.

    While merely having PC compatibility in the iPod might not dilute its value, having iTunes ported to Windows certainly does; again, it's not a compatibility issue like having QuickTime for Windows, where you're trying to push a file standard; the MP3 format is already a standard, iTunes is just an interface, and a Macintosh interface. On the Macintosh is where it belongs.

    One last thing-- Apple *does not need* to sell this unit to any non-Mac users, believe you me. The Mac using market is big enough, and the margin on the iPod healthy enough.

    Noctavis wrote on Tuesday, 11/06/2001 - 8:33 pm:

    : :
    : : Yeah, and leaving my modem on all night will get that
    : new
    : : game demo downloaded, too. Doesn't mean that DSL
    : wouldn't be
    : : better ;-)
    :
    : That's a bit oversimplified.
    :
    : :
    : : I think your jukebox does sound like a good buy, but
    : the
    : : ability to use the iPod as an external hard drive,
    : too,
    : : seems to make it the best for anyone who already has
    : : firewire. Copy your work files (and any games you don't
    : want
    : : your boss worrying about) to it at home in a few
    : seconds,
    : : listen to your music on the way to work, then plug it in
    : at
    : : your work machine. at the end of the day, drop the stuff
    : you
    : : need to work on at home into it and repeat the
    : process.
    :
    : Well... it needs to be understood that this ability is not
    : particularly special... Other, much much cheaper MP3 devices
    : support the capability to operate as external drives as
    : well.
    :
    : AND they're cross-platform, supporting MacOS AND Windows
    : AND even Linux. (Apple had to get really huffy and push the
    : Mac with a somewhat more artificial limitation. The problem
    : with that being that their iPod isn't going to sell any
    : better for doing it, whereas it could be out there
    : building the Apple name otherwise)
    :
    : :
    : : It just seems like a really handy little device. I'd
    : get
    : : one if I had $400 to spare and a firewire-equipped
    : pmac
    : : ;-)
    : :
    : : Darks
    :
    : Yeah, it's really sexy. Nice case. Compact. Though if I
    : return to the PC world at some point in the future (which
    : depends upon where Apple takes hardware design - like
    : adopting technologies which have been around for a year now
    : in the PC world - and OS X, because I'm willing to accept
    : the limitations of a new OS for a while, but only for a
    : while. Provided that they continue to improve it along
    : certain lines.)
    :
    : However, I've got to criticize the idea that adding
    : Firewire (and $150 or more) to the iPod really makes it
    : /that/ much better. (I'm reposting this from another area
    : where I originally wrote it)
    :
    : Firewire maxes out at 400Mbps (50 megabytes/sec) . If
    : you're transporting a full 5 gigs across to the iPod (which
    : you may do ONCE) then you're talking about a minimum time of
    : around 103 seconds. If it's running at a slower FW speed,
    : then you're talking about something like three minutes or
    : more. That's damn impressive, but we're not finished.
    :
    : Now... USB. USB1 runs at 12Mbits/s (1.5 megabytes/sec).
    : USB2 is 40x as fast as USB1, bringing it into competition
    : with Firewire for pure data-pushing power. And it may not be
    : as expensive.
    :
    : If you talk about transferring 5 gigabytes of data then
    : you're talking about a minimum time of 56.8 minutes with
    : USB1 or 1.7 minutes on Firewire. Still sounds awfully sexy.
    : However:


    :
    : - You'll likely only transfer a five-gig block ONCE.
    : Otherwise, you're normally talking about much smaller
    : packages on a day-to-day basis, like perhaps 50-100
    : megabytes at a time. (which would literally only take only a
    : minute or two in USB1. YAY! So why pay $150 more for
    : something you may not really need?)
    :
    : - As far as data transfer, you are limited by two things:
    : the hard drives on both ends of the cable. So the maximum
    : data throughput of the cable being used isn't necessarily
    : the final say on the matter, and you are not going to
    : necessarily get a data rate as pretty as Firewire (or even
    : USB2) may initially may it appear.
    :
    : - Ultimately, you /do/ have to compare prices vs.
    : performance. And for price/performance ratio, you're talking
    : about some MUCH better deals here: : HREF="http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/mp3.shtml">http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/mp3.shtml
    : (pay special attention to the Archos devices - note that one
    : has 4x the storage for roughly the same or less
    : money)

    :
    : Something to think about.
    :
    : Also... since USB is much more ubiquitous, you can expect
    : to be able to use USB-capable MP3 devices with many more
    : computers. (But then, I guess Apple "fixed" that by limiting
    : the iPod's compatibility to its very newest Powermacs)
    :
    : - Noc



    Narcogen


    Rampant for over se7en years.



    noctavis
    noctavis's picture
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    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    Nah, I just take a grain of salt with my Kool-aid =)

    narcogen wrote on Wednesday, 11/07/2001 - 2:22 am:

    : ... what is painfully obvious to most of us.
    :
    : The iPod is not an MP3 player.

    Yes, it is. =)

    But I'd like to have you start pushing that statement on other, much more widely-read forums and such as an ASE, and see how Apple feels about it.

    :
    : It is a Macintosh peripheral that plays MP3 files (as well
    : as AIFFs). Because it is a new Mac peripheral, it uses the
    : new Mac standard I/O for file transfer-- which is FireWire,
    : not USB (1 or 2).

    Ah... you're saying there's something special about it being able to act as a drive?

    BFD! I can get that with other MP3 playe- er, peripheral devices which also happen to be much friendlier to alternate platforms. =)

    Cheaper. More storage. More versatilite.

    The one real advantage of the iPod device is its firewire capability, and you're paying out the nose for that. And... the only time you're going to need that sort of capability is when you're doing high-volume data-streaming of audio or video. Like recording raw video data to disk from a live source.

    :
    : Its job is to be a value-add for those who own or are
    : considering purchasing Macintosh hardware anyway. It's not
    : reasonable to suggest that they expect any great number of
    : users to defect to MacOS just to use a music player that
    : doesn't peg the peak of the price/performance curve.

    ... Well, thanks for that admission ...

    :
    : It's to showcase the tight integration between hardware
    : and software that Apple can achieve because they do both, as
    : well as their ability for industrial design.

    ... like a concept car... not really intended to be purchased. ;-) ...

    :
    : Compared to the iPod, most of the players on that page
    : look like sophomoric doodlings of C- industrial design
    : students; the Archos players in particular.

    Feh... a case. I'm talking capabilities. The iPod is pretty, but it ain't $400 pretty. That Archos, however, has 4x the storage (a whoppin' 20G), will also act as a drive AND supports twice as many platforms as the iPod. =)

    :
    : And compared to iTunes, MusicMatch also is an exercise in
    : frustration.

    Ah... so now you're trying to make things really narrow by taking two apps and comparing them, when the real issue of the thread is the hardware. Who gives a damn? Everyone has his own preferences when it comes to a given MP3 player. iTunes is nice, and I wouldn't mind seeing it come to the PC at some point because of that (like QuickTime, which is a major standard), but this is not the issue that I am discussing.

    snip!

    : One last thing-- Apple *does not need* to sell this unit
    : to any non-Mac users, believe you me. The Mac using market
    : is big enough, and the margin on the iPod healthy enough.

    Seems to me that you're assuming that a given percentage of Applephiles will purchase an iPod. What percentage is that, and what numbers would that translate to?

    You're also openly basing your statement on Apple's needs. I'm looking at it most of all from the perspective of the consumer's needs. =)

    - Noctavis


    Noctavis
    narcogen
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    Better with a margarita

    Noctavis wrote on Wednesday, 11/07/2001 - 6:33 am:

    : narcogen wrote on Wednesday, 11/07/2001 - 2:22 am:
    :
    :

    : ... what is painfully obvious to most of
    : us.
    : :
    : : The iPod is not an MP3 player.

    :
    : Yes, it is. =)
    :
    : But I'd like to have you start pushing that statement on
    : other, much more widely-read forums and such as an ASE, and
    : see how Apple feels about it.

    Fine. It's the angle they are pushing themselves.

    Playing MP3s is not the essence of what the iPod does; it is coincidental.

    Just like the Macintosh Is Not A Typewriter, as the famous book title goes.

    The iPod is a portable extension to a Macintosh computer that allows you to play MP3s while mobile with the same aesthetic experience that you get when using your Mac for the same task. In addition to being portable FireWire storage.
    :
    :

    :
    : : It is a Macintosh peripheral that plays MP3 files (as
    : well
    : : as AIFFs). Because it is a new Mac peripheral, it uses
    : the
    : : new Mac standard I/O for file transfer-- which is
    : FireWire,
    : : not USB (1 or 2).

    :
    : Ah... you're saying there's something special about it
    : being able to act as a drive?

    No... please READ THE WORDS I AM WRITING.

    I'm not comparing it to other players because COMPARISONS TO OTHER PLAYERS ARE IRRELEVANT.

    They are standalone devices. They are meant to be used independent of what kind of computing device you have (if any-- some of the Archos players record from audio as well, so you don't even need a PC. Pretty soon I'm sure we'll see combo HD / CD / Minidisc devices that can play and rip as well.

    We talked a lot about this same issue before you bought your TiBook-- on a straight price / performance / features comparison, the TiBook, like the iPod, is too pricey. You get a processor with a slower rating, a smaller disk, and fewer available apps for more money.

    And like with the iPod, the experience of using the device more than compensates for those deficiencies for those who value that more than the specs.

    Basically, if I have to use MusicMatch as my software, I don't give a darn if I can store TEN times the number of MP3s on the device, because I'm going to be cursing at it the whole time.
    :
    : BFD! I can get that with other MP3 playe- er, peripheral
    : devices which also happen to be much friendlier to alternate
    : platforms. =)
    :
    : Cheaper. More storage. More versatilite.

    Versatile in what sense?

    It's the same "versatility" people talk about when they compare the number of available programs for Windows compared to MacOS-- disregarding, of course, that they'll never want, need, or run the vast majority of them.

    Yes, you're right-- IF Apple had included Linux / Windows compatibility in the iPod, I could, in theory, sync it with another PC.

    But I've owned a Rio 500 for a year now, and I've NEVER synced it with anything other than my own personal Mac.

    Why CRIPPLE the iPod with USB, thus limiting the transfer speed, for the sake of potential compatibility most users won't ever need? You don't want to give up the possibility of doing something that, in all likelihood, you'd never do anyway because you want to decide that for yourself.

    But making good designs means tradeoffs. iTunes and the iPod are a great pair; I wouldn't have wanted Apple to tradeoff FireWire or iTunes integration for compatibility. If they had, I *wouldn't* want one; I'd most likely opt for one of the other players you mention.

    In other words, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, I'd do the same-- opt for the most storage per dollar. But the storage per dollar and/or compatibility doesn't mean anything to me, because I'd rather have seamless integration with the MP3 player I use-- iTunes-- on the machine I use it on-- my Mac-- and take FULL advantage of everything it has to offer, which includes FireWire. External USB devices like hard drives and CD burners are PAINFULLY slow. They piss me off. I tend to at least consider stuff Apple sells because usually it doesn't piss me off.
    :
    : The one real advantage of the iPod device is its firewire
    : capability, and you're paying out the nose for that.

    Well, first of all, if you're taking the $150 price difference, some of that may be due to FireWire, but not all of it. Some of it probably has to do with developing/purchasing your own MP3 player and then giving it away for free-- instead of just licensing some piece of crap like MusicMatch and calling it a day.

    It might also have to do with paying a real designer like Jonathan Ives instead of farming out the job to the lowest bidder. Those Archos players are FUGLY.

    And...
    : the only time you're going to need that sort of capability
    : is when you're doing high-volume data-streaming of audio or
    : video. Like recording raw video data to disk from a live
    : source.

    Hardly. I want every experience of copying data from here to there to be as fast as possible whenever possible. USB sucks; it's not good for much more than mice, keyboards, and webcams. And even those are better done with FireWire. (The cams, that is)

    This is part of the aesthetic experience-- that things happen quickly and effortlessly. I guarantee you, I'll end up appreciating the faster transfer times even when it's just a song or two, because watching it happen like THAT will make me feel good about the device and the system it uses.
    :
    :

    :
    : : Its job is to be a value-add for those who own or are
    : : considering purchasing Macintosh hardware anyway. It's
    : not
    : : reasonable to suggest that they expect any great number
    : of
    : : users to defect to MacOS just to use a music player
    : that
    : : doesn't peg the peak of the price/performance
    : curve.

    :
    : ... Well, thanks for that admission ...

    Heck... I never pretended otherwise. For the iPod or the TiBook. The thing is, other considerations become paramount when you end up using a device like a laptop or a music player on a regular basis over a long period of time. The nice specs are OK when you're comparing before you buy; but the day you buy the player will probably be the last day you appreciate them. After that, it's the experience of using it that matters. I guarantee that in general, I'll have a more positive, enjoyable experience using my iPod even if it means from time to time swapping out a few CDs or tracks, than I would using MusicMatch or some other software just to keep dumping tracks.
    :
    :

    :
    : : It's to showcase the tight integration between
    : hardware
    : : and software that Apple can achieve because they do
    : both, as
    : : well as their ability for industrial
    : design.

    :
    : ... like a concept car... not really intended to be
    : purchased. ;-) ...

    Exactly the opposite. A player with high specs and low usability-- large HD, crappy software-- is more like a concept car. They put a 20GB drive in the thing to show they can do it-- but I'm betting the iPod is more useable. Again, in the speed/storage tradeoff, in this case I'll take speed.

    :
    :

    :
    : : Compared to the iPod, most of the players on that page
    : : look like sophomoric doodlings of C- industrial design
    : : students; the Archos players in
    : particular.

    :
    : Feh... a case. I'm talking capabilities. The iPod is
    : pretty, but it ain't $400 pretty. That Archos, however, has
    : 4x the storage (a whoppin' 20G), will also act as a drive
    : AND supports twice as many platforms as the iPod. =)

    I'm not talking pretty. I'm talking interface as well.

    And supporting "twice as many platforms" doesn't matter worth a damn if the ONE the iPod supports is the one I use, does it? Keep in mind, again... even Apple is only planning on selling these to Mac users. All other sales are gravy... trust me.

    If that wasn't so, they'd be paying the shelf fees to put this thing at BestBuy. But you watch... they won't.

    :
    :

    :
    : : And compared to iTunes, MusicMatch also is an exercise
    : in
    : : frustration.

    :
    : Ah... so now you're trying to make things really
    : narrow by taking two apps and comparing them, when the real
    : issue of the thread is the hardware. Who gives a damn?

    No, you posted a link to a page with other players-- the only one that really meets the price/performance comparison you mentioned is the 20GB Archos and one other, and they BOTH use MusicMatch.

    : Everyone has his own preferences when it comes to a given
    : MP3 player. iTunes is nice, and I wouldn't mind seeing it
    : come to the PC at some point because of that (like
    : QuickTime, which is a major standard), but this is not
    : the issue that I am discussing
    .

    No, it IS the issue you're discussing, you're just denying it. There is no iPod compatibility without iTunes. If you mean just dumping files on a HD, you CAN do that from another platform. It's already been said half a dozen places already.
    :
    : snip!
    :
    :

    : One last thing-- Apple *does not need* to
    : sell this unit
    : : to any non-Mac users, believe you me. The Mac using
    : market
    : : is big enough, and the margin on the iPod healthy
    : enough.

    :
    : Seems to me that you're assuming that a given percentage
    : of Applephiles will purchase an iPod. What percentage is
    : that, and what numbers would that translate to?

    I'm not allowed to be more specific on those issues; you're just going to have to trust me.

    :
    : You're also openly basing your statement on Apple's needs.
    : I'm looking at it most of all from the perspective of the
    : consumer's needs. =)

    But WHICH consumer?

    Again, you're assuming a target market is "people who want an MP3 player"-- and that's not the market that's targeted here. The market is "Mac users". Sure, maybe there'll be some converts-- one pundit already bought one and said he might even buy a Mac to use it more easily. But that's not the point.



    Narcogen


    Rampant for over se7en years.



    vector40
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    Re: Nah, I just take a grain of salt with my Kool-aid =)

    Let me get this in:

    SIZE DOES MATTER

    Carry on.


    Good Ol' Ho-Hum
    narcogen
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    Re: iPod discussion

    narcogen wrote on Tuesday, 10/30/2001 - 01:41:

    : Here's a collection of posts transplanted from RHL; it
    : started to choke our news area, so we moved it here:
    :
    :
    : _________________________________________________________
    : From Jester (Tue Oct 30 00:45:46 2001):
    :
    : I usually don't throw my chips in during discussions here,
    : but I feel compelled to correct a few things.
    :
    : First off, an issue that hasn't been addressed here is the
    : size of the screen and battery life. I own a 64 meg Rio
    : player, and the thing eats batteries like that's its job.
    : It's tough to browse songs or create playlists with the
    : device. Navigation on it is mediocre at best... I can't
    : imagine how annoying it must be on a 5 GB Nomad.

    I never create playlists in my Rio for precisely this reason. I always use iTunes (prior to that, SoundJam). The navigation isn't bad, but it's nothing special-- and even so it is head and shoulders above many similar devices.

    :
    : Whoever is talking about how "USB 1 is sufficient"
    : obviously does not own a USB MP3 player. Transferring songs
    : takes what seems to be an eternity, especially when you have
    : to transfer 64 megs of them every few days to keep the
    : listening rotation fresh. Sure, I could get a nomad, but
    : that thing would eat even more batteries, take forever to
    : "warm up" after I turn it on, and be an even bigger bitch
    : about transferring files. The way I see it, Apple's
    : self-powered, 5 gig, firewire, cig pack sized, harddrive
    : that plays MP3s and syncs with iTunes automatically is worth
    : every dime of that price tag. If you're still dead set on
    : getting something cheaper, send me some email and I'll give
    : you a great deal on my 64 meg rio.

    I agree. My Rio 500 doesn't store much music, but I still end up waiting longer for it than I think I should.

    Beyond that, I have to micro-manage the playlist contents, which I can only do with the device plugged into my Mac. I get the distinct impression that with the iPod, I'll have a device-specific playlist I can edit even when the device isn't connected, and then the necessary deletions and additions will be made when the device is plugged in.

    That's great just in itself.

    I can't imagine what a bitch it'd be to try and micromanage a few gigabytes of storage one song at a time, or even a few playlists at a time.

    And yeah, once I get my iPod my Rio 500 is also up for sale-- and I'll throw in the extra 64MB card for it, too!

    :
    : _________________________________________________________
    : From Noc@PC (Mon Oct 29 22:25:17 2001):
    :
    : But while we're on the topic (yes, I'm being a hypocrite
    : ;-): I've got to criticize the idea that adding Firewire
    : (and $150) to the iPod really makes it /that/ much better.
    :
    : Firewire maxes out at 400Mbps (50 megabytes/sec) . If
    : you're transporting a full 5 gigs across to the iPod (which
    : you may do ONCE) then you're talking about a minimum time of
    : around 103 seconds. If it's running at a slower FW speed,
    : then you're talking about something like three minutes or
    : more. That's damn impressive, but we're not finished.
    :
    : Now... USB. USB1 runs at 12Mbits/s (1.5 megabytes/sec).
    : USB2 is 40x as fast as USB1, bringing it into competition
    : with Firewire for pure data-pushing power. And it may not be
    : as expensive.
    :
    : If you talk about transferring 5 gigabytes of data then
    : you're talking about a minimum time of 56.8 minutes with
    : USB1 or 1.7 minutes on Firewire. Still sounds awfully sexy.
    : However:
    :
    : - You'll likely only transfer a five-gig block ONCE.
    : Otherwise, you're normally talking about much smaller
    : packages on a day-to-day basis, like perhaps 50-100
    : megabytes at a time. (which would literally only take only a
    : minute or two in USB1. YAY! So why pay $150 more for
    : something you may not really need?)

    Well, first of all, if you use it as a hard drive (as I plan to) you will need that speed advantage more often. I'm also guessing somebody will eventually hack around a way to use this thing to transfer large blocks of MP3s from one computer to another (or, heck... perhaps even from iPod to iPod directly...

    Beyond that, first impressions are important. Transferring that first clock over in a few minutes instead of an hour or more is a tangible, marketable "wow" factor.

    And I'm guessing that before a year is out they'll increase the capacity of the drive anyway.



    Narcogen


    Rampant for over se7en years.



    Johnny Law
    Johnny Law's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 10/14/2001 - 23:29
    Any info on Halo tools?

    Is it known what kind of tools are used to make Halo content? Standard (expensive) modelling apps, stuff developed in-house, some combination?

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Halloween Stories

    I'm sure some of you must have a ghost story or something to relate. I'd love to hear it. =)

    - Noc

    acrappa
    acrappa's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    Re: Halloween Stories

    My dog died the day before Halloween when I was 11. I haven't celebrated it ever since.

    Earendil
    Earendil's picture
    Offline
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    Joined: 10/16/2001 - 13:22
    Scarie stories please

    acrappa wrote on Wednesday, 10/31/2001 - 4:02 pm:

    : My dog died the day before Halloween when I was 11. I
    : haven't celebrated it ever since.

    not heart braking ones ;-(

    Oh! They have the internet on computers now! - Homer J Simpson

    SockPuppet
    SockPuppet's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 11/01/2001 - 00:43
    Re: Scarie stories please

    One time I threw an egg at my friend and he had to go to hospital to get egshell removed from his eye. The next day he spraypainted my dog, bastard

    madmax
    madmax's picture
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    Joined: 10/11/2001 - 07:09
    Well, I'm a day late. Sue me.

    : I'm sure some of you must have a ghost story or something
    : to relate. I'd love to hear it. =)

    Ok, these aren't directly Halloween related, as they happened at no time near Halloween, however I must stress that I would swear on never having beer again that they are both true.

    1. The Haunted House

    About 8 years ago (when I was 12) my year at my school took a walk along the coast near St Andrews, where I live (that's in Scotland for the un-inititated). It was a glorious summer day, baking hot, neautiful sea off on the left, not a cloud to be seen, and general fun was being had by all.

    It was a pretty long walk, and after an hour the group had split up quite a lot - there were some keen people near the front, some in the middle and some at the back (obviously with a teacher to make sure everyone got there alright).

    Myself and 4 friends (Daniel, Andrew and two others I don't recall) were somewhere in the middle. There wasn't anyone else near us, the main group was about 200 metres in front and there was the rear-guard about 300 metres behind us.

    We came across a house, which to this day is still there. I could describe it in detail but that would be boring. Seeking fun, as ever, we went inside. The ground floor was pretty small - two small rooms, a kitchen and a porch. There was dirt all over, someone had had a fire in a corner, the windows were intact but grimy, and there was a wooden ladder in one room leading up to the top floor.

    Wanting a better view we climbed this ladder and were in some kind of bedroom. We hung out the window, watched the others coming towards us and those in front of us, threw stones out at some oil drum in the backyard, and stuff. When we'd finished, we turned around and looked through the door into the other upstairs room. In a corner there was a tall wardrobe, with two doors, looking in quite good nick (although pretty dead). Inquisitive as ever we walked in to take a look around, but the second we went through the door, a full-length mirror in one of the wardrobe doors clouded and (and I *swear* I am not lying) the image of a corpse with a noose around his neck appeared, walking out of it.

    Understandably shocked, we legged it down the ladder and out the door, scrambling to get the hell out of there. We ran and ran and ran round the field towards the group in front (which was the rear-guard, the teacher had failed to notice we were missing) running as fast as our little legs could go. Looking back when we were about 200 metres from the cottage we saw a dark shape appear against the skyline from the door of the house. We didn't wait to see what happened, just kept running like hell.

    Needless to say noone believed us, and teachers were rather upset that we managed to lose them, but to this day I can remember what the man looked like.

    2. Holy Orders
    The second one doesn't concern me directly, I have only ever been told it, however it was by people who I trust utterly.

    At my school there were a number of boarding houses, which served as a home for every pupil. My house was called "Pinkie", and was a huge great 14th century stone house. It has various famous things related to it - the Battle of Prestonpans happpened nearby and the dead and dying were brought there as a makeshift hospital. Bonnie Prince Charlie spent some time living in the tower, and one of the ladies of the house (called "Green Jean") once threw her child out of a window because she thought it was so ugly, and then threw herself out in shame a week later. All this is the perfect setting for a number of ghost stories (Green Jean's howling ghost at the bottom of the spiral staircase, soldiers dying etc etc). There are real bloodstains on the floor of the Painted Gallery, which was the main hospital for the Battle of Prestonpans.

    Anyway, the most interesting of all the tales is that of a monk.

    The Painted Gallery is where the new boys sleep (I spent 3 joyous and very cold terms in there), and one new boy 50 years ago had a very chilling experience.

    One night this boy couldn't sleep, as befits a child newly come to boarding school, and he was lying awake in bed while all his peers slept. The gallery is so laid out that the large windows at one end allow the moonlight to come right in all the way down the dormitory for a few hours every night. The beds are lined up along the two long walls of the gallery, 10-15 to a side, with a couple of metres between them, feet pointing out into the room.

    Looking up the Gallery the boy noticed a shape moving between beds, stopping at each one for a few seconds and then moving on to the next. When the shape grew closer he could see it was dressed in a monk's habit, and it was blessing each bed in turn as it passed. The monk continued all the way up one wall, and then started down the other, towards the boy lying awake.

    When the monk came to the boy's bed, he walked passed it without even looking at him, and stopped at the next bed and continued his routine. The boy finally managed to get to sleep, and the next day told his friends, who obviously put it down to new-boy-nightmares.

    The story now jumps forwards 15 years, when a school reunion was organised. The hero of our story decided to go along and see how his old school friends were doing, and was rather shocked to learn that every single person who had been in the Gallery that night and had been blessed by the monk had died. Needless to say our hero lived a full life, and is (I believe) still alive today.

    The End

    There are other stories I could tell - Pinkie House has since been exorcised and there are no ghosts around any more, but there is a room in the tower which has been totally bricked up - it is thought that a previous inhabitant made a deal with the devil, and his family bricked him in there one night while he was doing his dirty deeds. If you look up at the tower at night you can (quite honestly) see a candle burning in the room, every night (and trust me, we've made sure it's in the room we think it is).

    mad.max =PN=

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Go back to work -nt-

    mad.max =PN= wrote on Thursday, 11/01/2001 - 6:06 am:

    : : I'm sure some of you must have a ghost story or
    : something
    : : to relate. I'd love to hear it. =)
    :
    : Ok, these aren't directly Halloween related, as they
    : happened at no time near Halloween, however I must stress
    : that I would swear on never having beer again that they are
    : both true.
    :
    : 1. The Haunted House
    :
    : About 8 years ago (when I was 12) my year at my school
    : took a walk along the coast near St Andrews, where I live
    : (that's in Scotland for the un-inititated). It was a
    : glorious summer day, baking hot, neautiful sea off on the
    : left, not a cloud to be seen, and general fun was being had
    : by all.
    :
    : It was a pretty long walk, and after an hour the group had
    : split up quite a lot - there were some keen people near the
    : front, some in the middle and some at the back (obviously
    : with a teacher to make sure everyone got there alright).
    :
    : Myself and 4 friends (Daniel, Andrew and two others I
    : don't recall) were somewhere in the middle. There wasn't
    : anyone else near us, the main group was about 200 metres in
    : front and there was the rear-guard about 300 metres behind
    : us.
    :
    : We came across a house, which to this day is still there.
    : I could describe it in detail but that would be boring.
    : Seeking fun, as ever, we went inside. The ground floor was
    : pretty small - two small rooms, a kitchen and a porch. There
    : was dirt all over, someone had had a fire in a corner, the
    : windows were intact but grimy, and there was a wooden ladder
    : in one room leading up to the top floor.
    :
    : Wanting a better view we climbed this ladder and were in
    : some kind of bedroom. We hung out the window, watched the
    : others coming towards us and those in front of us, threw
    : stones out at some oil drum in the backyard, and stuff. When
    : we'd finished, we turned around and looked through the door
    : into the other upstairs room. In a corner there was a tall
    : wardrobe, with two doors, looking in quite good nick
    : (although pretty dead). Inquisitive as ever we walked in to
    : take a look around, but the second we went through the door,
    : a full-length mirror in one of the wardrobe doors clouded
    : and (and I *swear* I am not lying) the image of a corpse
    : with a noose around his neck appeared, walking out of it.
    :
    : Understandably shocked, we legged it down the ladder and
    : out the door, scrambling to get the hell out of there. We
    : ran and ran and ran round the field towards the group in
    : front (which was the rear-guard, the teacher had failed to
    : notice we were missing) running as fast as our little legs
    : could go. Looking back when we were about 200 metres from
    : the cottage we saw a dark shape appear against the skyline
    : from the door of the house. We didn't wait to see what
    : happened, just kept running like hell.
    :
    : Needless to say noone believed us, and teachers were
    : rather upset that we managed to lose them, but to this day I
    : can remember what the man looked like.
    :
    : 2. Holy Orders
    : The second one doesn't concern me directly, I have only
    : ever been told it, however it was by people who I trust
    : utterly.
    :
    : At my school there were a number of boarding houses, which
    : served as a home for every pupil. My house was called
    : "Pinkie", and was a huge great 14th century stone house. It
    : has various famous things related to it - the Battle of
    : Prestonpans happpened nearby and the dead and dying were
    : brought there as a makeshift hospital. Bonnie Prince Charlie
    : spent some time living in the tower, and one of the ladies
    : of the house (called "Green Jean") once threw her child out
    : of a window because she thought it was so ugly, and then
    : threw herself out in shame a week later. All this is the
    : perfect setting for a number of ghost stories (Green Jean's
    : howling ghost at the bottom of the spiral staircase,
    : soldiers dying etc etc). There are real bloodstains on the
    : floor of the Painted Gallery, which was the main hospital
    : for the Battle of Prestonpans.
    :
    : Anyway, the most interesting of all the tales is that of a
    : monk.
    :
    : The Painted Gallery is where the new boys sleep (I spent 3
    : joyous and very cold terms in there), and one new boy 50
    : years ago had a very chilling experience.
    :
    : One night this boy couldn't sleep, as befits a child newly
    : come to boarding school, and he was lying awake in bed while
    : all his peers slept. The gallery is so laid out that the
    : large windows at one end allow the moonlight to come right
    : in all the way down the dormitory for a few hours every
    : night. The beds are lined up along the two long walls of the
    : gallery, 10-15 to a side, with a couple of metres between
    : them, feet pointing out into the room.
    :
    : Looking up the Gallery the boy noticed a shape moving
    : between beds, stopping at each one for a few seconds and
    : then moving on to the next. When the shape grew closer he
    : could see it was dressed in a monk's habit, and it was
    : blessing each bed in turn as it passed. The monk continued
    : all the way up one wall, and then started down the other,
    : towards the boy lying awake.
    :
    : When the monk came to the boy's bed, he walked passed it
    : without even looking at him, and stopped at the next bed and
    : continued his routine. The boy finally managed to get to
    : sleep, and the next day told his friends, who obviously put
    : it down to new-boy-nightmares.
    :
    : The story now jumps forwards 15 years, when a school
    : reunion was organised. The hero of our story decided to go
    : along and see how his old school friends were doing, and was
    : rather shocked to learn that every single person who had
    : been in the Gallery that night and had been blessed by the
    : monk had died. Needless to say our hero lived a full life,
    : and is (I believe) still alive today.
    :
    : The End
    :
    : There are other stories I could tell - Pinkie House has
    : since been exorcised and there are no ghosts around any
    : more, but there is a room in the tower which has been
    : totally bricked up - it is thought that a previous
    : inhabitant made a deal with the devil, and his family
    : bricked him in there one night while he was doing his dirty
    : deeds. If you look up at the tower at night you can (quite
    : honestly) see a candle burning in the room, every night (and
    : trust me, we've made sure it's in the room we think it
    : is).
    :
    : mad.max =PN=

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Scary Story

    Once upon a time there was a game called myth3 that was released at the same time for windows and mac and no one using a mac had to wait for some bugs to be fixed for machines that probably wont be able to run the game and all the windows and mac users didnt bitch and moan about who has the better computer and this is a nice long sentence which is also scary to an english teacher or mb even a person who is just scared of everything and then the evil yard gnomes will tie up the mailman when he comes and they will blame it on you...

    Now thats scary

    kalis
    kalis's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    Halloween Fun

    I'm sure some of you have come across this before, but for those who haven't it is a little bit of Poe madness transposed into some juicy geeky themes. Worth the read.

    Any other interesting halloween tidbits floating around out there?

    vector40
    vector40's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: 9 years 11 months ago
    Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
    M:R

    Okay, so, I just shot and quartered the "friend" who had my UT cd. Now, I'm starting to wish I was paying more attention when Resurrection came unto the scene. Can somebody refresh me on where I can get my hands on it? Also, is there a particular server Bungie folks usually play on?

    acrappa
    acrappa's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    Re: M:R
    vector40
    vector40's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: 9 years 11 months ago
    Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
    Re: M:R

    Uh, first of all, the download doesn't seem to work...
    Second, this is really weird—when I replied, this is what showed up in my reply box:

    acrappa wrote on Wednesday, 10/31/2001 - 6:23 pm:

    : : href="http://resurrection.bungie.org/">http://resurrection.bungie.org/
    : time. If you don't receive your promo tomorrow, please give
    : us a call at 877-432-9675.
    Thank you,
    Ria
    :
    EBgames.com

    Friendly and informative enough.
    : We'll keep you posted on the latest developments.

    kalis
    kalis's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    Re: M:R

    iirc, the download was hosted at the evihcra.com network, which currently seems to be down. Hopefully it will be back soon™.

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Re: M:R

    vector40 wrote on Wednesday, 10/31/2001 - 7:03 pm:

    : Okay, so, I just shot and quartered the "friend" who had
    : my UT cd. Now, I'm starting to wish I was paying more
    : attention when Resurrection came unto the scene. Can
    : somebody refresh me on where I can get my hands on it? Also,
    : is there a particular server Bungie folks usually play on?

    http://www.unrealcenter.com/downloads/index.phtml?id=107012&language=en

    Once you have beta 1.1 (installed), you just need to click the server tab to look for any online servers - or jump on subnova hl and ask if someone wants to host one...

    -cb

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Re: M:R

    There are currently two full-time servers running: our mapper Wolfchild is hosting an Every man for himself (Marathon Deathmatch) server, and Frigidman is running a KOTH server. Both are published and can be picked from their respective server tabs in UT.

    vector40 wrote on Wednesday, 10/31/2001 - 7:03 pm:

    : Okay, so, I just shot and quartered the "friend" who had
    : my UT cd. Now, I'm starting to wish I was paying more
    : attention when Resurrection came unto the scene. Can
    : somebody refresh me on where I can get my hands on it? Also,
    : is there a particular server Bungie folks usually play on?

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Funny, i don't feel anonymous [NT]
    kalis
    kalis's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    more music stuff

    Just in time, ye olde Winamp has struck again. I was getting pissed at it's poor implementation of seek and shuffle features, and especially it's crappy cd-audio implementation (with some CDs it's not an issue, but with live CDs the little pause between tracks is bloody annoying).

    Well, Winamp3b1 has me using Winamp again, as the interpolation between songs is pretty cool, as are all the little transparency effects they through in. Looking forward to the release version, as this one is definitely just post-alpha. The visualization stuff is cool too.

    One can only hope they'll take a cue from Quicktime and implement a real seek feature.

    vector40
    vector40's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: 9 years 11 months ago
    Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
    Just Watch
    Mojo
    Mojo's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 10/12/2001 - 12:18
    Fauna?

    I remember an E3 of yore, and surely, while it was another Halo which we all saw then, some things were kept the same (take the marine model, for instance).

    So here's my question, a question that could probably easily be answered by someone who has played Halo a bit. Is there still ambient life in Halo? You know, just like those big dinasaur-like things that we saw in the E3 demo? Or the animals which were herding and then were broken up by the jeep? Or the flies in the very first demo? Are any of them still with us? Or is this planet void of natural inhabitation?

    later,
    Mojo

    later,
    Mojo

    Allenthar
    Allenthar's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 11/04/2001 - 02:39
    Re: Fauna?

    I played Halo earlier today at the Xbox Odyssey, and although I only got through the first few levels, I saw no signs of any fauna other than the Covenant. We can hope that we there is something later in the game, but will not have a chance to play it again until someone near me gets an Xbox.

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Myth 3 Tools

    Anybody know the take on Myth 3 map creating/editing?

    I haven't heard any speak of the tools lately..

    -Iso

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Re: Myth 3 Tools

    Aye, they've been fairly silent on it. Hopefully it will be released along with the patch. That's my biggest issue, I can live with Myth 3 as is as long as we get some more maps ;)

    -Mori

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    RHL is back up.

    See subject.

    Had to shuffle all the computer equipment in my apartment. No, I don't pay hundreds of dollars each month to run RHL in a special co-loc facility. So every once in a while, when things at my apartment change... RHL goes on the blink. Sorry about that.

    --Frac

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    SPREADING THE $#%$ING GOOD NEWS
    Jackolantern
    Jackolantern's picture
    Offline
    Last seen: Never ago
    Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
    Comparing and contrasting the Xbox and Game Cube

    First off let me say that I have never had an opportunity to play ether game system before so these should also be considered first impressions.

    I went to the Xbox odyssey this weekend in San Francisco. When I got there their were about 20 people standing in line waiting to get in(it had not opened yet). When I got in I went and saw Halo immediately, I got to play some co-op on a 21" plasma screen, quite a choice experience. My biggest complaint for the entire event was that you could not hear anything but the loud thumping music the DJ was playing. After playing through the first little bit I stepped back and let other people play. While waiting for one of the other Halo spots to open up I walked around and saw some of the other games on display. I played Oddworld for a bit, it was interesting. If you liked previous Oddworld games you would like this one. One big difference is that Abe does not die, if he steps on a mine he just gets back up, dusts him self off and keeps going. I also saw Dead or Alive 3, I was pretty impressed with this title. While I did not play it(I would have been beat by the 7 year old massing buttons) the graphic and arenas were enough to convince me that this would sell well. For instance there was one arena in the snow, as the fighters would walk around they would leave trails in the snow, if they hit the edges of the space snow would fall from the trees on the fighters and they would shake it off. I also think that this fighter will appeal to those who like bounce and jiggle in there games because there was plenty, as well as some pretty shameless panty shots. Anyway back to Halo. This time I played on a regular old TV, still co-op and still no sound. I found that the control scheme came to me pretty easily this time, I give major props to the Halo team, my biggest misgiving about Halo on the console was the control scheme. The controls in Halo were at least as good as a Mouse keyboard combo. As long as I am talking about the controller I will interject a few thoughts on the size of the thing, I found that the controller fit well in my hands, it felt nether to large or ungainly. My biggest qualm is the placement of the white button. I kept hitting it when trying to hit the y key. Other then that I was pleasantly surprised by the controller. So how did I like halo you ask, well I liked it a lot. I dont want to talk much about gameplay because it has been covered many times before, I will make a few points though.

    The jeep is much harder to drive then I though it would but I eventually got the hang of it.

    The assault rifle is a perilous weapon, it takes down grunts and jackels in a flash (if you can get around the jackels shields) the Cov elites on the other hand take two or three clips to take down and the reload time is murder, it is much easier to pick up a plasma rifle and just deck him with that.

    The melee attack is insane, if you pull it off you can deck a much larger foe in seconds.

    Cool effects that all games will have in the future:
    If you have your flashlight on and are reloading the AR the flashlight moves with the gun, pretty cool.

    The trails left by the sniper rifle, especially if you have the night vision on in the scope.

    About frame rate, I played Halo for about three hours straight and it only dropped frames once and that was at a check point were I assume loading/saving was being done and it was for only a second. In the 4player mp game I saw there was no noticeable frame rate reductions.

    After the xbox event I headed on over to the game cube club just down the embarcidaro. Let me say that one thing MS has to learn is how to throw a party. Not only was the Cube thing in a FAR more heavily trafficked area but they were giving out free stuff right as you walked in the door, stickers, the december issue of gamepro a puzzle thing, tons of other game cube paraphernalia as well as having two contests going on. Anyway to the games! For the most part I felt like I was at some little kids party, of the games they had only one had a more adult feel to it(rouge squadron 2) All the rest came from either a sport franchise(football, basketball) or a previous nintendo franchise(super smash brothers:melee, Luigis Mansion, the monkey ball game[which felt like a previous nintendo game], or starfox). I would have to say that as someone who has not played console games at all these games really did not have anything that appealed to me, rouge squadron was the most visually stunning of them all, (with a close second to Luigi's Mansion) but it was plagued by the same problems that most console flight sims have difficult controls and tracking. A little about the hardware, the thing I really noticed about the cube was how small it was, it is tiny. But so is the control pad. It felt like I was going to break the control pad most of the time, it was definitely built with a younger age bracket in mind. I did not stay to long at the cube event. it had been a long day and would take me far to long to get home.

    So how would I sum up the difference between the two systems? The game cube I felt was intended for much younger people kids in the early to pre-teen set. None of the games there had anything more then animated violence and for the most part none at all. The xbox on the other hand is aimed squarely at the older teen and twenty something market, with games like Halo and DoA3 blasting both away with both the sex(DoA3) and violence(both). Also the xbox felt and looked more like a computer and and the games played like computer games, the GC both played and looked like a console. I will also say that the xbox event served its purpose though, I now want a box and not just for Halo. Now lets see if I can get together the money.

    Jackolantern out

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Xbox Odyssey

    Hiiya,

    I was at the same event as Jackolantern, in fact, I played coop with him right after we got in the door. I've posted an in-depth report of my thought over on HBO's forums. In coop, the emphasis on teamwork is great. Much better than the other games I have played. All of the Covenant displayed impressive AI and different styles of attack and retreat, adding greatly to its atmosphere. As foir the vehicles, learning to drive the jeep actually reminds of learning to drive a car. The controls are there and it is just a matter of practicec before you figure out how much pressure is needed to make it go in the direction and speed you wnated it too. As for the Gamecube. . . I'm not going to buy one, and I doubt anyone college age besides Nintendo's die-hard fans will really find it appealling.

    Allenthar

    Dispatcher
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    Fall of Reach Stellar Trivia.

    Just finished reading "Halo: The Fall of Reach". I really liked this book. Very well done (except for some of the proof-reading :-). That said, I thought I would skip such things as are covered in the game "Halo" (even though I did play the coop solo demo a bit and got to explore the POA and some of the surface of the Ring). Instead I will comment on locations in the book. Forgive me if any of this has been covered already.

    Trivia about the major stars referred to in "Halo: The Fall of Reach".

    First, Eradinus is not a star. It is a constellation and means "River". It is just above the Horologium constellation, for those who remember the E3 Bungie booth. Here is a list with class K stars (orange sun) which might be home to John's public school:

    53 Eridani (Sceptrum)
    Omicron (2) Eridani (Keid) "Broken Eggshell"
    P Eridani
    Delta Eridani (Rana) "Frog"
    Tau 2 Eridani (Angetenar)
    Eta Eridani (Azha) "Hatching Place"

    Any guesses? :-)

    Its not Epsilon Eridani. See below.
    The brightest, Alpha Eridani, can be ruled out since it is a hot white or blue star and the planet has an earthlike atmosphere.

    The remaining (specific) stars are:

    Lambda Serpentis, 38 LY away, close orbiting binary pair, sunlike G class, Comfort Zone would put Jerico 7's orbit at about 1.5 earth years.

    Epsilon Eridani, 11 LY away, orange sun with unseen companion (now), Comfort Zone would put Reach's orbit at about 157 earth days. There is a dust ring about 60 terran AU out from the star. For those who care, this would be the star Babylon 5 orbits. Heh.

    Chi Ceti, 77 LY away, binary, Comfort Zone of the sunlike component would put Chi Ceti 4's orbit at about the same as earth from Sol, meaning that their "years" are about the same. The other component is hotter and its Comfort Zone is about 2.5 AU out, so the year would be longer if CC4 were there.

    Sigma Octanus (or Octans or Octantis), 121 LY away and is the Southern Pole star.

    Dispatcher

    no7orious
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    Chi Ceti would be my vote...

    Yeah, If i could catch the errors, then they were pretty bad. I liked the novel alot. Reminded me of a mix between Enders game for obvious reasons, and Conquerer's trilogy for the 'Humans have missiles and Aliens have lasers' aspect. And last it reminded me of 'Cobras Two' because turning humans into super weapons kicks ass.

    My ignorant question of the day:

    So Marathon happened after Halo?

    Dispatcher wrote on Monday, 11/05/2001 - 1:18 am:

    : Just finished reading "Halo: The Fall of Reach". I
    : really liked this book. Very well done (except for some of
    : the proof-reading :-).

    My vote for that CHI CHEI place, because they didn't tell me how they figured if he was 6 earth years, or wether it was the standard used by that planet. ;) trivial, but it works for me.

    *NM* *NM*

    Dispatcher
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    Clarification.

    no7orious wrote on Monday, 11/05/2001 - 1:09 am:

    : Yeah, If i could catch the errors, then they were pretty
    : bad. I liked the novel alot. Reminded me of a mix between
    : Enders game for obvious reasons, and Conquerer's trilogy for
    : the 'Humans have missiles and Aliens have lasers' aspect.
    : And last it reminded me of 'Cobras Two' because turning
    : humans into super weapons kicks ass.
    :
    I really need to read these.

    : My ignorant question of the day:
    :
    : So Marathon happened after Halo?
    :
    Hamish knows. :-)

    : My vote for that CHI CHEI place, because they didn't tell
    : me how they figured if he was 6 earth years, or wether it
    : was the standard used by that planet. ;) trivial, but it
    : works for me.

    Good point about whether or not John was 6 earth years old or if some other planet year was used. But I think in my haste to get my post up, I might have made it confusing. The first set of stars belong to the constellation Eridanus. Most of the other remaining stars listed belong to other constellations. Chi Ceti and the others in the second set of stars would not be candidates for the "star" called Eridanus. The first set only lists the most likely candidates in the proper constellation.

    vector40
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    Re: Fall of Reach Stellar Trivia.

    I'm going to cut this script in half and feed it to my cat. Why won't it mark these things as new?

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Halo first thoughts...(minor spoiler action)

    Crossposted at HBO, by the way, so if ya read
    it there, these aren't the droids you're looking
    for, move along...

    I got a hold of an XBox and a copy of Halo this
    weekend. (Never mind how I got 'em, suffice it
    to say it involved killing a few MS marketing
    people who actually turned out to be Covenant
    agents in disguise.)

    I've only been able to play the first two levels of
    the single player game so far, and well...it rocks.
    Other than the control issues (which I'll cover later)
    the game is damn near the best 3d shooter I've ever
    played.

    The good:

    Weapon usage is awesome, this ain't your daddy's Quake,
    boy. You wanna pick up that plasma gun? Better drop your
    assault rifle.

    Out of ammo or just like the sound the covenant makes when
    ya hit 'em up close and personal? Swing away with whatever
    weapon's handy, not just the assualt rifle, the pistol and
    pretty much everything else.

    Bob interaction: Everytime I hear "Who's your daddy?" or "My bad!"
    I crack up. These guys are pretty damn awesome. Although, I
    didn't like the way some of of them just stood around after
    the blast doors closed on the PoA while I was trying to find
    the bridge.

    Graphics: The game is, in a word. Gorgeous. From bullets setting off
    Covenant shields to the opening splash screen of the Halo spinning
    in space. to the waterfalls you pass near on crashing in the lifepod.
    Well done.

    The Bad:

    Multiplayer: No sir, Don't like it. Splitscreen sucks like a
    V8-powered Hoover. If this is what Goldeneye and Perfect
    Dark mp was like, I don't care to play either. It's a
    crappy compromise.

    The controls: I know 'rex and many others have said it takes getting
    used to, and it does. But still, it seems a bit klugey to me. I
    found myself inadvertantly moving forward into enemy fire while
    attempting to crouch. Now, this could just be that I'm clumsy
    and just need to work on my touch, but the whole setup just seems
    slighty counter-intuitive to me. The controller, despite its size,
    however, is quite comfortable.

    The Ugly:

    Not much. Other than my standard rant that this is not the
    game I was hoping for. (And unless I missed the option to play in MP
    as covenant, it isn't) Halo, in it's XBox form is infinitely better
    than I expected it to be. I still don't reccomend shelling out the
    350 bucks plus to play it if you can't swing it, but if you can. By
    all means, go nuts. It's a pretty damn sweet shooter.

    CH

    madmax
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    Who the hell...

    ...gave you an XBox? Surprised they let people like you near such technology, who knows what you could do with it!

    Anyway, share the wealth - make a copy of your XBox and post it over to me.

    mad.max =PN=

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Re: Who the hell...

    mad.max =PN= wrote on Monday, 11/05/2001 - 5:42 pm:

    : ...gave you an XBox? Surprised they let people like you
    : near such technology, who knows what you could do with it!

    Oh...just wait 'til I'm done with Halo. Then I'm gonna pop the
    case, take out that little fusion reactor, er...PIII and use it
    for nefarious ends...

    : Anyway, share the wealth - make a copy of your XBox and
    : post it over to me.

    Hmm...The USPS has been rather wary of suspicious packages
    lately, it might be a while...

    CH

    vector40
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    Re: Halo first thoughts...(minor spoiler action)

    : The controls: I know 'rex and many others have said it
    : takes getting
    : used to, and it does. But still, it seems a bit klugey to
    : me. I
    : found myself inadvertantly moving forward into enemy fire
    : while
    : attempting to crouch.

    I believe that's partially intentional. They're trying to curb the sort of mad, unrealistic crouch- and jump-dodging that so oft occurs in UT, Q3, CS, and all the other online wombats.

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Re: Halo first thoughts...(minor spoiler action)

    vector40 wrote on Monday, 11/05/2001 - 8:56 pm:
    :
    : I believe that's partially intentional. They're trying to
    : curb the sort of mad, unrealistic crouch- and jump-dodging
    : that so oft occurs in UT, Q3, CS, and all the other online
    : wombats.

    Actually, I think it's less intentional and more
    due to the fact that I have big thumbs...

    CH

    silicondream
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    Joined: 05/20/2000 - 05:31
    Oh, stop boasting[nt]

    NT = New Testament whoop-ass

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    lol...

    SiliconDream =PN= wrote on Tuesday, 11/06/2001 - 1:35 pm:

    : NT = New Testament whoop-ass

    Not a boast, 100% true. My thumbs are HUGE!!!

    Oh, and I shot a bunch of grunts today, but not before one
    could shout, "They're everywhere!"

    CH

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Re: Halo first thoughts...(minor spoiler action)

    :
    : The Bad:
    :
    : Multiplayer: No sir, Don't like it. Splitscreen sucks like
    : a
    : V8-powered Hoover. If this is what Goldeneye and Perfect
    : Dark mp was like, I don't care to play either. It's a
    : crappy compromise.
    Well personally I think that the multiplayer split screen is fine, the only problem being that it is split screen, other than that, coop is just dandy, play it on a 53 inch tv, and it wont be so bad :)

    : The controls: I know 'rex and many others have said it
    : takes getting
    : used to, and it does. But still, it seems a bit klugey to
    : me. I
    : found myself inadvertantly moving forward into enemy fire
    : while
    : attempting to crouch. Now, this could just be that I'm
    : clumsy
    : and just need to work on my touch, but the whole setup
    : just seems
    : slighty counter-intuitive to me. The controller, despite
    : its size,
    : however, is quite comfortable.

    Yeah the controls are not a mouse and keyboard, but it is possible to get used to it and enjoy the game. we know they wont beat mouse and keyboard, but I tried it and am convinced I can get used to it.

    : The Ugly:
    :
    : Not much. Other than my standard rant that this is not
    : the
    : game I was hoping for. (And unless I missed the option to
    : play in MP
    : as covenant, it isn't) Halo, in it's XBox form is
    : infinitely better
    : than I expected it to be. I still don't reccomend shelling
    : out the
    : 350 bucks plus to play it if you can't swing it, but if
    : you can. By
    : all means, go nuts. It's a pretty damn sweet shooter.
    :

    It is more than a sweet shooter, it is the best shooter to ever see the light of day. Eclipsing half life and any other game you can possibly think of. The graphics are by far the best out there, probably on par with the upcoming next generation PC games (unreal 2, doom3) But this game is out now! not later, it's truly great and I am excited to play it more. Halo is the king of all shooters.

    Allenthar
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    Xbox odyssey (additional spoiler action)

    I posted these thoughts over on HBO, but I guess no one saw them as they got buried in a sea of other posts shortly thereafter. Anyway, thought I'd put them here just to vent my unrelenting enthusiam for Halo and give you some more material for you guys to discuss.

    (First, for those concerned with spoilers, I have practically nothing to say about the story, but I do go in depth on multiplay, weapons, and "combat events" from the first few levels. So, if you want your first Halo experience to be as pure as possible (and I don't blame you :-) stop reading now)

    Hi,

    I was lucky enough to be able to go to the Xbox Odyssey event in San Francisco on the 4th of November and succeeded in spending about five hours playing either coop or multiplayer Halo. So, here are my thoughts:

    Graphically, Halo is more the sufficient :-) There were a few spots in the first level where I actually stopped and gawked at the material the Covenant buildings were made of. As you moved, there was a subtle iridescence and bumpiness to the metal of the buildings that shifted and changed colors. Truly gorgeous. Everything appears like it was in the preview movies, but with much greater clarity and detail.

    Simply put, Halo looks great and any worries you may have had should be completely dispelled. On another note, I was afraid that Halo would look poor because of the low resolution of the ordinary television. I played for about half of the time on a 18" or so television and even with four players you could still see everything you needed to fight effectively. So, yet another worry of mine gone! Although the graphics are wonderful, I think it is the gameplay that really makes Halo shine.

    First, I'll start with coop.

    Because of the number of people there, I never got to try Halo in single-player, so I tried to keep a coop game going as long as possible. Even with two of us fighting, the Covenant were quite a challenge. Throughout the first level on the Halo, we had several times where we had restart from the last checkpoint because both of us had died. The "only two weapons at a time" rule always kept me scrounging through the dead bodies to find a new or better weapon. On normal difficulty, the Grunts were deceptively hard to get rid of. I'd notice a pack of them to one side and then proceed to mow them down with the assault rifle, finding out only a moment later that two Grunts behind me had stuck two plasma grenades to my back. Needless to say, I went flying into the nearest wall. The jackals, the covenant that carry the round energy shields were probably the next hardest enemy. Because we were in coop, one of us would pin them down with gunfire and the other would flank them and take them out from their unarmored sides or backs. If I was on my own, I had to use a grenade/AR combo, in other words, I tossed a fragmentation grenade behind them and continued to shoot them from the front to prevent them from running away before the grenade blew. Then there are the *shudder* Elites. These bad boys dodge very quickly and use cover extremely well, and then when you are least expect it, run at you and whack you with the gun. With the two of us, the elites weren't too difficult to kill alone. But when they came in groups of three or more or with other enemies they made for quite a fight.

    In one scene, we were each given a sniper rifle, an assault rifle, and a few grenades, then sent out to deal with a group of Covenant that had a pair of stationary cannons. As soon as we fired the first shot into the sentries, the elites and jackals on patrol dove behind the nearest rock or tree, and the grunts ran to man the turrets. I picked off a few grunts with the sniper rifle and generally attracted attention until my mate got to a higher position where he could snipe better. After the enemy started shooting at me, which stops the use of the scope by the way, I switched to the assault rifle tossed a grenade and dove into the fray. The first grenade took out two of the jackals and a good spray with the AR followed up by a melee attack took out the nearest elite.

    By this time, two of the grunts had reached the stationary turrets. Low on health, I tossed a plasma grenade onto the nearest of the two turrets and ducked behind cover while it blew skyhigh. Meanwhile, my partner had managed to snipe the second grunt out of the seat of the other stationary turret. I ran and hopped into that turret just in time to catch the Covenant reinforcements rushing down to where our battle had just took place. I then proceeded to lay the smack down on them with their own turret just in time for our AI buddies to cheer at our victory.

    All in all, a perfect example of how great coop Halo is :-)

    Oh, one more note: you will learn to _fear_ the energy blade. The scene involving your first encounter is just too great to reveal ;-)

    Now, on to multiplayer.

    Much of my time at the Odyssey was spent playing 4 player Halo on a HUGE Pioneer flatscreen. :-D I played the majority of the games as two versus two "Iron CTF" on a map called Blood Gulch. Iron CTF is basically normal capture the flag, except that the two Warthogs that are normally used on the Blood Gulch map are replaced with two Scorpion tanks :-) I got to have a lot of experience with both the Scorpion and the Warthog in these games and I can definitely say that vehicle control is great in Halo. Many people had trouble starting out, but after about 10 minutes of driving the controls were practically second nature to me. And it is SO much fun to go ripping across the map at full speed in a warthog, do a skidding sideswipe to take out one of the enemy while my partner on the back guns down the other. And yes, you CAN wallop the enemy on the head with the flag :-)

    Anyway, one small issue came up during this game. Shortly after starting, we realized that spawn camping someone else's base with a Scorpion was a somewhat abusable tactic. One of the two enemy players parked his tank right in front of our base and continually shot a cannon shell into us shortly after we respawned. This got annoying after 5 or 6 deaths and I decided to try and do something about it. The next time I respawned, I dove behind our circle shaped base and grabbed a sniper rifle that was there. Then I ran as far away as I could, keeping the base between me and the tank. Finally, I turned around, zoomed in all the way with the rifle and put 5 shots into the enemy as he sat in the tank waiting for my partner to respawn. That ended his reign of terror and I decided that the best thing to do was return the favor. I jumped in the driver's seat and my partner hopped on the outside of the tank. I took us over to the enemy's base and unloaded shell after shell into the surrounding terrain as my partner ran into the base and grabbed their flag. While I put down covering fire with the tank's machine gun and cannon, he hopped on and we headed back to our base at full speed. Unfortunately, the enemy soon reached the other tank on the map and, with a skillful shot, took out both me and my partner, leaving us back at square one. From then on, the abusive tank camping became impossible as the players got better and the offending tank drivers were easily taken out with a pair of well placed grenades or a few sniper rifle rounds. The imbalances in the vehicles seemed to work themselves out as the players became more familiar with the controls and weapons.

    Speaking of the weapons, Halo diverges from the norm in that every weapon seemed actually useful, especially in certain situations. The usually lowly pistol of most FPS's has been replaced by a pistol that has a heavy dose of deadly force, pinpoint accuracy, and a 2X scope. From long distances I could kill someone with an assault rifle before they even got close enough to me to really hurt me with it. One good charged up blast from a plasma pistol to a very hefty chunk out of someone's shields, and the shotgun owned when you could ambush somebody at close range. The good thing was, none of the weapons I got to play made all of the others obsolete. I applaud Bungie for their exceptional balancing in this section of the game.

    Well, I think I'll stop rambling now. If there is anything anyone wants me to elaborate more on, feel free to ask! :-)

    Allenthar

    Anonymous (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture
    Wonderful post :)

    Allenthar, that is a beautiful post, and makes me want Halo even more! Now, to import or not to import...?

    mad.max

    no7orious
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    consolewire.com previews halo... and no one cares.

    They loved it. (no surprise there) They got the multiplayer options wrong. (They are a site dedicated to consoles that have internet capablilities, kinda surprised there) They didn't think that the story was the best:

    It might not be the most original, but it’s certainly well executed and presented through the environments and in-game cinematic cut-scenes. Although we don’t want to spoil the details of the story for you , you can expect a few really exciting twists.

    So, is the story of Halo/Marathon not all that original? Is it familiar plotlines *very* well done? or is it new and unique.

    *NM* *NM*

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