community archive

1531 posts / 0 new
Last post
Jackolantern
Jackolantern's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
Re: Halo Story Questions (spoilers!)

AS to why the cole protocol would not let Cortana be destroyed by the enemy:

I like to think of it as a damaged hard drive. If you put a bullet in the drive you make it unusable, but someone with enough skill could resurrect most of the data. Also by putting a bullet in the drive you limit your abilities to further damage the data. Now imagine that Cortana is simply "destroyed" by a blast that takes out most of the ship, but not the part that she is in, the information she has is still intact and could be used by nefarious third parties for mischief. I guess this eliminates any kind of capture scenario ala M2.

-Jackolantern

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Agreed about Cortana

Oh so long ago we were introduced to Cortana in the infamous Letters. Now we've actually heard-- and seen her.

From the letters she sounded bitter, almost evil; somewhere between Durandal and Tycho

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: Agreed about Cortana

Well that didnt work :P

As I TRIED to say....

I agree 100%. The Cortana of the Cortana letters sounded very 'Durandal-ish' and decidely grey in color. In fact it was the way her personality came across that fostered some of my earliest impressions that the Halo saga/universe was tied in someway to the Marathon universe. But her tone/attitude in the footage is noticeably lighter.

I'm hoping she develops a darker side later in the game....

Johnny Rotten wrote on Monday, 10/22/2001 - 12:49:

: Oh so long ago we were introduced to Cortana in the
: infamous Letters. Now we've actually heard-- and seen her.
:
:
: From the letters she sounded bitter, almost evil;
: somewhere between Durandal and Tycho

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
She very well could

: the letters she sounded bitter, almost evil;
: : somewhere between Durandal and Tycho
:

while she'sn a ship, with hundereds(thousands?) of people to interact with, she can't very well go around being mean.I would guess that in such a system there would be humens who's job is to watch an AIm and make sure it's not braking down. besides, any AI with control of my ship would get the boot the minute she/he wasn't complete sweet heart :-)

but now she is being handed over to the cyborg, a person she could very well threaten/blackmail, and with no one over her to control her. her true personality could come out. but I suspect she'll be nice for a while. besides, we want to give the newbies the idea that AI's are powerful, smart, and very nice. the shock and fear of one turning on you will be better that way, imho.

guess we'll just have to find out....
Earendil

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Sounds good! (nt)

Earendil wrote on Monday, 10/22/2001 - 13:29:

: : the letters she sounded bitter, almost evil;
: : : somewhere between Durandal and Tycho
: :
:
: while she'sn a ship, with hundereds(thousands?) of people
: to interact with, she can't very well go around being mean.I
: would guess that in such a system there would be humens
: who's job is to watch an AIm and make sure it's not braking
: down. besides, any AI with control of my ship would get the
: boot the minute she/he wasn't complete sweet heart :-)
:
: but now she is being handed over to the cyborg, a person
: she could very well threaten/blackmail, and with no one over
: her to control her. her true personality could come out. but
: I suspect she'll be nice for a while. besides, we want to
: give the newbies the idea that AI's are powerful, smart, and
: very nice. the shock and fear of one turning on you will be
: better that way, imho.
:
: guess we'll just have to find out....
: Earendil

Blank
Blank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/20/2001 - 06:01
Re: Halo Story Questions (spoilers!)

: 3) AIs and the Cole Protocol
:
: The Captain orders Cortana to leave the ship with the
: Master Chief, and orders the MC to protect her from the
: Covenant. The reason he gives is that the Cole Protocol
: doesn't allow the shipboard AI to be captured OR DESTROYED
: by the enemy.
:
: I had to play that bit over a few times to make sure I'd
: heard it right; I was expecting it him say that destruction
: of the shipboard AI was preferable to capture.
:
: They explain quite well why capture is unacceptable;
: Cortana has information about human capabilities and
: tactics, as well as the position of Earth. Her capture would
: likely mean victory for the Covenant.
:
: But why not destruction? Other than the loss of a valuable
: asset, this seems puzzling except as a symbolic device for
: giving the player a reason to have a voice in his head
: throughout the game.
:
: Surely, it would make sense given what's known so far that
: Cortana be destroyed if she was about the fall into enemy
: hands. But the Cole Protocol doesn't seem to allow that, at
: least not as phrased here; destruction and capture seem
: equally unacceptable.
:
: For that to make sense, there's got to be something about
: the importance of a shipboard AI-- or Cortana in
: particular-- that we don't know yet.

Cortana is obviously not only important, but unique. In the video where MC meets with the Captain and Cortana, she says something like "A dozen superior covenant battleships against a single cruiser, with those odds I'm content with 3, make that 4, kills." If Cortana was able to destroy 4 of the covenant ships, I don't think the humans would be in such a bad situation if they had an AI like that onboard every vessel. She's obviously too important to allow to be captured, but she's also obviously too powerful to allow to be destroyed, as she may be one of the best weapons that we have against the covenant.

~B-Sharp

Earendil
Earendil's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/16/2001 - 13:22
Re: Halo Story Questions (spoilers!)

B-Sharp wrote on Monday, 10/22/2001 - 15:37:

: : 3) AIs and the Cole Protocol
: :
: : The Captain orders Cortana to leave the ship with the
: : Master Chief, and orders the MC to protect her from
: the
: : Covenant. The reason he gives is that the Cole
: Protocol
: : doesn't allow the shipboard AI to be captured OR
: DESTROYED
: : by the enemy.
: :
: : I had to play that bit over a few times to make sure
: I'd
: : heard it right; I was expecting it him say that
: destruction
: : of the shipboard AI was preferable to capture.
: :
: : They explain quite well why capture is unacceptable;
: : Cortana has information about human capabilities and
: : tactics, as well as the position of Earth. Her capture
: would
: : likely mean victory for the Covenant.
: :
: : But why not destruction? Other than the loss of a
: valuable
: : asset, this seems puzzling except as a symbolic device
: for
: : giving the player a reason to have a voice in his head
: : throughout the game.
: :
: : Surely, it would make sense given what's known so far
: that
: : Cortana be destroyed if she was about the fall into
: enemy
: : hands. But the Cole Protocol doesn't seem to allow that,
: at
: : least not as phrased here; destruction and capture
: seem
: : equally unacceptable.
: :
: : For that to make sense, there's got to be something
: about
: : the importance of a shipboard AI-- or Cortana in
: : particular-- that we don't know yet.
:
: Cortana is obviously not only important, but unique. In
: the video where MC meets with the Captain and Cortana, she
: says something like "A dozen superior covenant battleships
: against a single cruiser, with those odds I'm content with
: 3, make that 4, kills." If Cortana was able to destroy 4 of
: the covenant ships, I don't think the humans would be in
: such a bad situation if they had an AI like that onboard
: every vessel. She's obviously too important to allow to be
: captured, but she's also obviously too powerful to allow to
: be destroyed, as she may be one of the best weapons that we
: have against the covenant.
:

or maybe these covie ships are weak little things. the covies could have some huge fricken ships they haul around with them for big battle, but when it comes to giving chase to a single ships, they decided all they needed where 8 small ships.

AI or not, if the ships can't fire and maneuver like hell, what's the point of an AI running it over a human? the only point of an AI would be that it should be able to make a decision faster. but like I said, with a giant and slow ship ship(I'm assuming), it's not going to mater.

Earendil

Oh! They have the internet on computers now! - Homer J Simpson

Blank
Blank's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/20/2001 - 06:01
Re: Halo Story Questions (spoilers!)

: or maybe these covie ships are weak little things. the
: covies could have some huge fricken ships they haul around
: with them for big battle, but when it comes to giving chase
: to a single ships, they decided all they needed where 8
: small ships.

uhm well actually, when Cortana says "A dozen superior covenant battleships against a single cruiser..." it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the argument you're making here.

~B-Sharp

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: Halo Story Questions (spoilers!)

B-Sharp wrote on Tuesday, 10/23/2001 - 15:37:

: : or maybe these covie ships are weak little things. the
: : covies could have some huge fricken ships they haul
: around
: : with them for big battle, but when it comes to giving
: chase
: : to a single ships, they decided all they needed where
: 8
: : small ships.
:

Why would a big ship be slower... in space, size doesn´t matter
: uhm well actually, when Cortana says "A dozen superior
: covenant battleships against a single cruiser..." it doesn't
: leave a whole lot of room for the argument you're making
: here.
:
: ~B-Sharp

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Can somebody give this a whirl?

If you happen to have a PC, and it doesn't suck (isn't that an oxymoron? Okay, never mind), I'd appreciate it if you tried this out.
I've got a nasty substitution code, and half a year of combined efforts have gotten me nowhere, so I found this here and thought it might yield some insight.
Here's the code.

abc/d/efg/
hi/hdjj/fg/akf|
la/gcfm/cnf/
lopcq/gcfof|

No spaces. Actually, the entire thing was written out in cryptic hieroglyphics, but I just substituted an ordinary letter for each.
The slashes are merely another letter, represented as such because they look like slashes. Actually, my guess is that those are the spaces, but I'm not sure...
The vertical line at the end is just that, a vertical line. So it could be another letter, but my guess is it's something else, perhaps some kind of sign-off—you can remove that if you want.

Some help would be appreciated.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: Can somebody give this a whirl?

So far the best I've gotten from it is "two i fed by bill ed the at does one argok doere", which isn't terribly encouraging. Are you sure it's a simple subsitution cipher of an English text? (Just because my program doesn't work on it doesn't mean it's not a simple substitution cipher, though, especially when the cipher is as short as this one...it doesn't handle shorties too well.)

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: Can somebody give this a whirl?

Scott Davies wrote on Tuesday, 10/23/2001 - 03:38:

: So far the best I've gotten from it is "two i fed by bill
: ed the at does one argok doere", which isn't terribly
: encouraging.

Yeah, no kidding :)
Perhaps I should have mentioned, however, that it's very possible that one or more of the words are made up. You know, nick-names and such. I'm not suggesting that "ed at" is some sort of handle, but the use of false words could easily have thrown the SubCracker off.

: Are you sure it's a simple subsitution cipher
: of an English text? (Just because my program doesn't work
: on it doesn't mean it's not a simple substitution cipher,
: though, especially when the cipher is as short as this
: one...it doesn't handle shorties too well.)

Almost certain. Proof? Well, in the fact that it's created by two middle school girls when they were about 9. A Beale code or something similar seems a bit unlikely, especially as it was mostly meant for scribbling notes to each other in class :)
I accepted this to crack on a challenge, if anybody's wondering.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Can you scan in the original?

... There may be some clue in how it is drawn.

- Noc

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: Can you scan in the original?

Noctavis wrote on Tuesday, 10/23/2001 - 15:33:

: ... There may be some clue in how it is drawn.
:
: - Noc

Will do.

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: Can you scan in the original?

Okay, I hope this works. Try: http://www.geocities.com/furiousangelsoutraged/

I've never (don't laugh) actually uploaded an image before, so I haven't a clue if this will work, but there's the bitmap, the jpeg, as well as the same in black and white.
Furthermore, something I didn't mention earlier: we really aren't sure which way that it's oriented. We assumed it was... uh, the way that I printed it here, but it could always be upside-down, and might make more sense that way—after all, notes are usually torn from the BOTTOM of the sheet.

RogueImage
RogueImage's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/17/2001 - 22:22
Nothing at that link

Seeing the original would be helpful. Any luck getting that uploaded somewhere? I'm almost positive the 2nd through 6th words are, "i sat by bill at," which seems to make sense for the age of kids who wrote it. If that is true, filling in the known letters it becomes: *** i sat by bill at **a. ** t*a* **a ***** t*a*a.

-RogueImage-

-RogueImage-

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: Nothing at that link

RogueImage wrote on Thursday, 10/25/2001 - 22:37:

: Seeing the original would be helpful. Any luck getting
: that uploaded somewhere? I'm almost positive the 2nd through
: 6th words are, "i sat by bill at," which seems to make sense
: for the age of kids who wrote it. If that is true, filling
: in the known letters it becomes: *** i sat by bill at **a.
: ** t*a* **a ***** t*a*a.
:
: -RogueImage-

Here. Log on to Tripod and access with account name "igne_ferroque" and password "brand852". There's 4 files in the directory, all different forms of a scan.
Ignore the weird squiggles and circles, that's the result of trying to figure the damn thing out :)

Good Ol' Ho-Hum
Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Narc, r.net is buggered

Don't know why, but when I log in I get the following code at the bottom of all pages. I can see a few lines (like the thing about blogs, and the top line with all the links) but nothing else!


Fatal error: Call to undefined function: box() in

/usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/rampancy/drupal-cvs/modules/box.module(45) : eval()'d

code on line 8

j00 suk!

mad.max =PN=

narcogen
narcogen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
Re: Narc, r.net is buggered

mad.max =PN= wrote on Tuesday, 10/23/2001 - 07:36:

: Don't know why, but when I log in I get the following code
: at the bottom of all pages. I can see a few lines (like the
: thing about blogs, and the top line with all the links) but
: nothing else!
:


: Fatal error: Call to undefined function: box() in

:
: /usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/rampancy/drupal-cvs/modules/box.module(45)
: : eval()'d
:
code on line 8
:

: j00 suk!

My ISP cut out while I was uploading a new box.module file, and the partial file was missing a few essential function definitions-- mainly, the box() function.

I was able to fix it about fifteen minutes later-- and it seems to be OK now. I won't be making any more major changes to the production site at this point-- everything will be switched over to another copy of the database and I'll be testing the changes there.

:
: mad.max =PN=



Narcogen


Rampant for over se7en years.



Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
X-Box crashing

http://gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/news/news.pl?y=2001&m=10&nid=22-159.db

feel bad for all those who bought a new $400 BSoD-Box...typical Microcrap quality

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
What does everyone think?

Im curious of everyone's opinion. What do you think Halo will most compare to in terms of how the game is? Better yet, what do you want most?

1) A lot like marathon, mainly about figuring out "how do i get from this floor up to that god damn ledge?" with some aliens thrown in to make it even more nerve racking.

2) A little like marathon with more emphasis on fighting?

3) Bears no resemblance to Marathon, level objectives are fairly straight forward, emphasis is placed all on barbequing baddies.

Now personally, I would like to see #2. As much fun as simply marching through levels blowing things away is, it gets old fast. And same goes for #1. With tons of puzzles and such, it provides a great challenge, but it kinda sucks when u start getting gray hairs trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B.
I really hope it will be a style where there are enough puzzles to keep u thinking, while still enough covies to keep the action continuous, and have a blast.
I fear though. Because if Halo follows suit as the rest of FPS have (i.e. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark) the emphasis will be on finding the objective, with very little mental challenge in between (if any) and killing anything with 2 legs. But hopefully bungie will come through and defy this stereotype. They have already thrown off the shackles of the typical FPS stereotype, and hopefully they will continue that defiance of normalcy in how the game is played.

Im only 14, be gentle when utterly brutalizing me for my rantings.

"If it has wings, kill it, if it doesn't, kill it anyway."

narcogen
narcogen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
Re: What does everyone think?

PanZer wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 01:32:

: Im curious of everyone's opinion. What do you think Halo
: will most compare to in terms of how the game is? Better
: yet, what do you want most?

Well, what I wanted was a realtime, online, persistent, massively multiplayer campaign simulation that allowed players to traverse this (entire) seamless world, and play as the humans or the aliens, and have innovative ways of enabling players to cooperate well in squads without resorting to cumbersome text commands or resource-intensive voice systems.

Maybe somebody will make a game like that someday.

But anyway, back to Halo.
:
: 1) A lot like marathon, mainly about figuring out "how do
: i get from this floor up to that god damn ledge?" with some
: aliens thrown in to make it even more nerve racking.

Or, better yet-- lots of rooms with buttons that control moving platforms of various height that must be manipulated into forming a kind of staircase. Of course, hinder the player by placing the buttons and platforms close to each other, but yet inexplicably accessed by a really long hallway that goes nowhere on purpose.

OK, a bit harsh-- but a deserved bash on what was probably the most painful puzzle in an otherwise excellent game :)

:
: 2) A little like marathon with more emphasis on
: fighting?

Hmm... I never really had a problem with the balance between fighting and puzzle-solving in Marathon-- just with the nature of some of the puzzles. Although any way you slice it, Marathon's approach to this was much more varied than Doom and Quake's endless key / door / exit puzzles.

What I wanted to see specifically was a different approach to removing linearity of plot. Marathon Infinity tried to do this choose-your-own-adventure style, by making the results of some of the players' actions affect the sequence of levels and some of the conditions. Of course, the number of branches was limited, they all ended up the same place at the end, and several levels were re-used. (Can't really blame them for that, I suppose-- creating a level is just too time consuming to make timeline branches with lots of choices, allowing the player to basically miss huge portions of the game for the sake of non-linearity.

I was hoping Halo would be less linear by not restricting player movement at all in a huge play area; by having gather general gameplay objectives that might be completed in different ways and at different times; and that the player's choices would in this manner affect the outcome of the game's "story".

That'd be really, REALLY hard. It's difficult to build up a coherent storyline for what is basically a freeform simulation.


Narcogen


Rampant for over se7en years.



Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: What does everyone think?

narcogen wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 02:55:

(Pazer's comments, though interesting, snipped for brevity)

: Well, what I wanted was a realtime, online, persistent,
: massively multiplayer campaign simulation that allowed
: players to traverse this (entire) seamless world, and play
: as the humans or the aliens, and have innovative ways of
: enabling players to cooperate well in squads without
: resorting to cumbersome text commands or resource-intensive
: voice systems.
:
: Maybe somebody will make a game like that someday.

Heh, you forgot the part about it running on a Mac...

: But anyway, back to Halo.

Indeed.

: Or, better yet-- lots of rooms with buttons that control
: moving platforms of various height that must be manipulated
: into forming a kind of staircase. Of course, hinder the
: player by placing the buttons and platforms close to each
: other, but yet inexplicably accessed by a really long
: hallway that goes nowhere on purpose.
:
: OK, a bit harsh-- but a deserved bash on what was probably
: the most painful puzzle in an otherwise excellent game :)

Colony Ship for Sale, Cheap...

: Hmm... I never really had a problem with the balance
: between fighting and puzzle-solving in Marathon-- just with
: the nature of some of the puzzles. Although any way you
: slice it, Marathon's approach to this was much more varied
: than Doom and Quake's endless key / door / exit puzzles.
:
: What I wanted to see specifically was a different approach
: to removing linearity of plot. Marathon Infinity tried to do
: this choose-your-own-adventure style, by making the results
: of some of the players' actions affect the sequence of
: levels and some of the conditions. Of course, the number of
: branches was limited, they all ended up the same place at
: the end, and several levels were re-used. (Can't really
: blame them for that, I suppose-- creating a level is just
: too time consuming to make timeline branches with lots of
: choices, allowing the player to basically miss huge portions
: of the game for the sake of non-linearity.
:
: I was hoping Halo would be less linear by not restricting
: player movement at all in a huge play area; by having gather
: general gameplay objectives that might be completed in
: different ways and at different times; and that the player's
: choices would in this manner affect the outcome of the
: game's "story".
:
: That'd be really, REALLY hard. It's difficult to build up
: a coherent storyline for what is basically a freeform
: simulation.

That was my biggest gripe with Infinty...

Seeing as we didn't get the big, realtime, 3rd person, humans or
covenant lovefest we all wanted (well, I wanted it, anyway) I want
Marathon 4, which is basically what this looks like it may turn out
to be. I want a good mix of intelligent story and action. And I don't
mind a linear plot as long as it's gripping enough to make me want
to care. Marathon and M2 made me want to get to that next level,
to read every terminal, especially the cryptic ones, to try to figure out
what the Hell Durandal was thinking.

That's what I want.

Oh, and I want to play it on a machine that wasn't designed chiefly
to piss in Sony's pool.

CH

narcogen
narcogen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
Re: What does everyone think?

Cannibal Harry (Anthrax free) wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 10:42:

: narcogen wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 02:55:
:
: :
: : Maybe somebody will make a game like that someday.
:
: Heh, you forgot the part about it running on a Mac...

Hmm... well, that has yet to be determined, CH... even Fm has come around on that :)

: : Or, better yet-- lots of rooms with buttons that
: control
: : moving platforms of various height that must be
: manipulated
: : into forming a kind of staircase. Of course, hinder
: the
: : player by placing the buttons and platforms close to
: each
: : other, but yet inexplicably accessed by a really long
: : hallway that goes nowhere on purpose.
: :
: : OK, a bit harsh-- but a deserved bash on what was
: probably
: : the most painful puzzle in an otherwise excellent game
: :)
:
: Colony Ship for Sale, Cheap...

Aye. Always that it was curious that one of the most memorable quotes came from such an annoying level :)

:
: : Hmm... I never really had a problem with the balance
: : between fighting and puzzle-solving in Marathon-- just
: with
: : the nature of some of the puzzles. Although any way
: you
: : slice it, Marathon's approach to this was much more
: varied
: : than Doom and Quake's endless key / door / exit puzzles.
:
: :
: : What I wanted to see specifically was a different
: approach
: : to removing linearity of plot. Marathon Infinity tried
: to do
: : this choose-your-own-adventure style, by making the
: results
: : of some of the players' actions affect the sequence of
: : levels and some of the conditions. Of course, the number
: of
: : branches was limited, they all ended up the same place
: at
: : the end, and several levels were re-used. (Can't
: really
: : blame them for that, I suppose-- creating a level is
: just
: : too time consuming to make timeline branches with lots
: of
: : choices, allowing the player to basically miss huge
: portions
: : of the game for the sake of non-linearity.
: :
: : I was hoping Halo would be less linear by not
: restricting
: : player movement at all in a huge play area; by having
: gather
: : general gameplay objectives that might be completed in
: : different ways and at different times; and that the
: player's
: : choices would in this manner affect the outcome of the
: : game's "story".
: :
: : That'd be really, REALLY hard. It's difficult to build
: up
: : a coherent storyline for what is basically a freeform
: : simulation.
:
: That was my biggest gripe with Infinty...
:
: Seeing as we didn't get the big, realtime, 3rd person,
: humans or
: covenant lovefest we all wanted (well, I wanted it,
: anyway) I want
: Marathon 4, which is basically what this looks like it may
: turn out
: to be. I want a good mix of intelligent story and action.
: And I don't
: mind a linear plot as long as it's gripping enough to make
: me want
: to care. Marathon and M2 made me want to get to that next
: level,
: to read every terminal, especially the cryptic ones, to
: try to figure out
: what the Hell Durandal was thinking.
:
: That's what I want.
:
: Oh, and I want to play it on a machine that wasn't
: designed chiefly
: to piss in Sony's pool.
:
: CH

Maybe so... but for myself, I'm really no longer willing to put off seeing Halo's story until the Mac/PC version comes out, although I'll certainly get it when it does. Hopefully whatever laptop I'm using then will be able to handle it :)

Besides... we know that manufacturers lose money on consoles. So if I buy an Xbox just for Halo, then I've actually hurt Microsoft. Not that I'm out to do that. But if the Xbox is so good that after Halo I want to play other games on it, and the games are good, and I enjoy it... well, then, bravo for them, they deserve it.

If I buy an Xbox just to indulge the pinnacle of my 3-year Halo habit, and never have any interest in any other game, then I don't really feel that I've in any way contributed to any of the nasty things that MS does, since they've probably lost money on me as a customer-- I doubt the margin on a single title makes back what they lose on the box.



Narcogen


Rampant for over se7en years.



Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Pipedream

narcogen wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 02:55

: Well, what I wanted was a realtime, online, persistent,
: massively multiplayer campaign simulation that allowed
: players to traverse this (entire) seamless world, and play as
: the humans or the aliens, and have innovative ways of
: enabling players to cooperate well in squads without resorting
: to cumbersome text commands or resource-intensive voice
: systems.

Yes, and what I wanted was Ultimate Marine Handbone Face-Off, where the best dancing would lead one to rule the Halo and all its mysteries. (?)

::wondering how the listed desires relate to any Halo that ever would have been made::

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: Pipedream

: Yes, and what I wanted was Ultimate Marine Handbone
: Face-Off, where the best dancing would lead one to rule the
: Halo and all its mysteries. (?)
:
: ::wondering how the listed desires relate to any Halo that
: ever would have been made::

Heh, speaking of bones and wishes unfulfilled, where's my Femur of Doom?

CH

narcogen
narcogen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
Not Pipedream, Press Release

Kel wrote on Friday, 10/26/2001 - 09:07:

: narcogen wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 02:55
:
: : Well, what I wanted was a realtime, online,
: persistent,
: : massively multiplayer campaign simulation that allowed
: : players to traverse this (entire) seamless world, and
: play as
: : the humans or the aliens, and have innovative ways of
: : enabling players to cooperate well in squads without
: resorting
: : to cumbersome text commands or resource-intensive
: voice
: : systems.
:
: Yes, and what I wanted was Ultimate Marine Handbone
: Face-Off, where the best dancing would lead one to rule the
: Halo and all its mysteries. (?)
:
: ::wondering how the listed desires relate to any Halo that
: ever would have been made::

Umm.. because more than half of them were from the original Halo press release?

About the only part that was ever pure speculation was the massively online simulation part-- and frankly, that idea isn't a pipe dream either, since that's being made into another game-- PlanetSide.

As originally announced, Halo was supposed to be huge, seamless, persistent, and allow you to play as human or alien online.

Before the transition to Xbox, there were people at Bungie talking about how they wanted to make cooperation between players in online squads easier and more convenient without text or voice messaging (this led to a lot of the speculation about gesturing and 3rd person view, although what was intended might merely have been making the objectives of the game itself more conducive to cooperation without communication).



Narcogen


Rampant for over se7en years.



vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: What does everyone think?

I have one thing to say: If I have to go through any "box-hopping" puzzles where the only talent required is a decent crouch-jump and a hell of a lot of patience, I'm driving down to Redmond to piss in Bungie's pool.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
What's all that pissing-in-pool thing? A new trend? [NT]
vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Rampancy tradition. *NM*

Stop hitting me!

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: What's all that pissing-in-pool thing? A new trend?

Anonymous B.orger wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 17:12:

A long, long time ago, I made a statement that the POSBox was
an attempt by Micro$oft to piss in Sony's pool. Basically, I was
ragin' against the Redmond machine and its latest attempt to
win a new market by throwing enough money to feed the third
world
at it.

Not that there isn't also a Tokyo machine to rage against, (i.e. Sony)
but at least they've built their empire on products that were actually
innovative and didn't require three attempts before getting a decent
version out the door.

CH

no7orious
no7orious's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
copyright versus licensing- How corporations are controlling you

I am doing a speech on subject somewhat related to this topic. During it I started wondering what the difference of copyrighted material and licensed material.

Maybe I know the difference, but perhaps congress and large companies don't. It seems that copyright has changed from protecting the intellectual works of all types of medio into a way that groups that distribute said media can police and enforce their INTERPETATION of copyright laws.

If you don't know anything about this, I recomment that you read up on all the things that groups such as the RIAA and other media distrubution/viewing groups are trying to rush through congress.

I have learned of many ways that large corporations through the government are trying (very hard) to control consumers. If you have any constructive or even critical thoughts or comments, they will be well recieved by me. As I stated I am doing a speech on a topic directly relating to this and any input will help me make a more factual accurate speech.

*NM* *NM*

narcogen
narcogen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 05/26/1999 - 02:00
Re: copyright versus licensing

no7orious wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 02:37:

: I am doing a speech on subject somewhat related to this
: topic. During it I started wondering what the difference of
: copyrighted material and licensed material.
:

Well... it's not as if they are two different classes of material; just two ways of describing pieces of material. And in this case, one is a prerequesite for another.

Licensed material is just any intellectual property for which certain rights have been granted by the rights holder to someone else for certain purposes, usually contractually and in exchange for money. But this describes a really wide group of transactions; for instance, in return for their stake in Bungie, Take Two got a license to make two games using Halo's engine; likewise, when you buy commercial software it comes with a license that defines the terms under which you may use it; you only "own" the physical media. The intellectual property that comprises the program itself is merely licensed to you.

Of course, it's difficult to license something to someone else unless you own that intellectual property; and copyright is how you prove that. The copyright process establishes who owns the rights to certain property, and establishes that others have no rights to said property without the acquiescence of the owner.

: Maybe I know the difference, but perhaps congress and
: large companies don't. It seems that copyright has changed
: from protecting the intellectual works of all types of medio
: into a way that groups that distribute said media can police
: and enforce their INTERPETATION of copyright laws.

Well... you're being a bit paranoid here. What is clear though is that the RIAA basically wants to appropriate the software industry's licensing scheme. This is mostly a result of previous legislation like the Home Recording Act not anticipating changes in technology.

The last time a change in technology caused a fight like this, it was the VCR. Media producers and broadcast industries wanted VCRs to play movies so that people could be sold tapes; they didnt want it used for illegal duplication of copyright material, or as a device for avoiding commercial messages by fast-forwarding through them.

However, the legal standard was "significant legitimate use"-- and it was demonstrated that time-shifting and other activities meant that the VCR had enough legitimate use and did not need to be technologically restricted to play-only.

Napster lost that same battle, and the rights granted Americans by the Home Recording Act are no longer exercisable in the manner done by Napster-- basically, the freedom to make and distribute copies for personal rather than commercial use. This was intended to apply to people taping CDs or albums for use in portable players, or in their cars, or to lend music to one another. These methods, however, are by their nature limited. People only have so many friends, and the cost and effort of duplication meant that the number of otherwise potentially "infringing" copies made using existing methods was not judged to be a threat.

MP3s and the Internet changed that, of course-- and whether or not it will ever be demonstrably proven true that Napster decreased CD sales (which I doubt) or that Napster's facilitation of file-swapping constituted "commercial use" even if they didn't charge users for the service or host any files themselves-- what couldn't be denied was that there existed a potential for essentially frictionless exchange of electronic intellectual property anywhere in the world at high speed and at virtually no cost. This represented a threat to the recording industry they could not afford to ignore; the rest is history.

Now that the barn doors have been closed along with Napster's free service, the time has come to go to the legislature and find the horse; mainly by trying to get legislated into intellectual property law the kind of concepts that normally belong in a license agreement, particularly because of the difficulty with so-called "shrink wrap" licenses (a contract that takes effect automatically when you open a package, even though you haven't read or signed it). The software industry got used to such practices from the start, and very early on technological methods were available to try and discourage copying that would violate the software's license agreement.

The music industry doesn't have that background. Nobody thinks of themselves as having "licensed" the latest Madonna song when it comes out; but legally that's the reality. The RIAA is just trying to make that clear and enforceable, since by and large technological restrictions like copy protection are even less successful in their area than it has been in software (which is to say, not very).

That the member companies of the RIAA are basically greedy corporations who leverage their control of distribution and promotion to get far more out of the sale price of a CD than most reasonable people think they deserve, at the expense of the consumer and the artist, is a widely held opinion, and quite valid. However, the assertion that as the rights holder they have certain authority under the law to say how their material is used and consumed is also true.

:
: If you don't know anything about this, I recomment that
: you read up on all the things that groups such as the RIAA
: and other media distrubution/viewing groups are trying to
: rush through congress.
:
: I have learned of many ways that large corporations
: through the government are trying (very hard) to control
: consumers. If you have any constructive or even critical
: thoughts or comments, they will be well recieved by me. As I
: stated I am doing a speech on a topic directly relating to
: this and any input will help me make a more factual accurate
: speech.

Well... not sure exactly what you mean by "control consumers." What I would say is that they are pushing for a world where all intellectual property is licensed rather than sold-- or, more specifically, to have it recognized legally that this is already the case.



Narcogen


Rampant for over se7en years.



RogueImage
RogueImage's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/17/2001 - 22:22
What happened to IK?

Back when we first started hearing about Halo, inverse kinematics was one of the advances we kept hearing was going to be incorporated in the game. It was supposed to make the animations and character interactions more realistic, by actually calculating reactions to forces on the fly. We haven't heard anything about this lately? Is it still in the game, or are all the animations just the same canned sequences that have always been in games up to this point?

-RogueImage-

-RogueImage-

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: What happened to IK?

My guess? It's in. But it falls under the category of massive, seamless world—Covenant play—water craft—and other such things. Basically, we have no idea.

The fact that the rest of those are out should have no relevance, mind you.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Re: What happened to IK?

RogueImage wrote on Wednesday, 10/24/2001 - 13:45:

: Back when we first started hearing about Halo, inverse
: kinematics was one of the advances we kept hearing was going
: to be incorporated in the game. It was supposed to make the
: animations and character interactions more realistic, by
: actually calculating reactions to forces on the fly. We
: haven't heard anything about this lately? Is it still in the
: game, or are all the animations just the same canned
: sequences that have always been in games up to this point?
:
: -RogueImage-

Aww crap I had this nice post explaining IK and FK, basically if Halo has Bones it has either FK or IK, IK means they control the last point of a chain of bones, FK means you control each joint indvidually. I would bet you that Halo still has them. The other issue you mention is using IK for realistic collisions, it seems obvious that Halo has a fairly advanced collision detection system (the mention on the IGN article of models reacting correctly to the walls) and it seems to me that IK would have to be tied to that in some way. The real question I suppose is if the animation cycles can be altered using collision detection and IK. and in the end I have no clue about this, but I would bet you IK is indeed in Halo as well as advanced Collision detection and if nothing else it seems to be implemented in the Death sequences.

-Cunbelin who wrote too much

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Capitals.

Aha, Narc. I think I found out what it is that keeps making me go "hmm" when I look at the site.
If the index, thataway

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
HALO, a sad day indeed.

I can still remember back in MacWorld 1999 when the independant company Bungie anounced Halo.

Yes, they did anounce it at MacWorld Show and it was going to be a great game indeed.

3 years later Bungie dosnt exist any more and Halo is just a pathetic resemblance of what it could have been.

Even if it ever makes it to the Mac I doubt I would ever play it what im sure is i wont buy it.

So while I wait for my copy of Myth III (hoping mumbojumba didnt screw with the engine and phisics to much) , all I can do is wait for Planetside and Red Faction.

So I have nothing to be happy about and if I have to congrat somone that would be Mr. William Gates III for buying Bungie, at least he gave it he finishing shot to the head and put them out of their missery.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Getting Halo and live in the Bay Area?

If so, post here. Let's get a LAN party set up for sometime soon! :)

Rob
Rob's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/25/2001 - 17:04
Getting Halo and live in Massachusetts Bay Area?

Drop a post.

-Rob

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
SF bay area here..

Pfhor wrote on Thursday, 10/25/2001 - 14:11:

: If so, post here. Let's get a LAN party set up for
: sometime soon! :)

SF

That the one you're in? I'm in San Mateo county.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Could you guys go too...

Anonymous B.orger wrote on Thursday, 10/25/2001 - 19:04:

: Pfhor wrote on Thursday, 10/25/2001 - 14:11:
:
: : If so, post here. Let's get a LAN party set up for
: : sometime soon! :)
:
: SF
:
: That the one you're in? I'm in San Mateo county.

http://bs.bungie.org/cgi-bin/bsib/topic.cgi?forum=4&topic=1

And yes, I'm in San Jose. Hope you guys are interested...

vector40
vector40's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/11/2001 - 21:07
Re: Getting Halo and live in the Bay Area?

Pfhor wrote on Thursday, 10/25/2001 - 13:11:

: If so, post here. Let's get a LAN party set up for
: sometime soon! :)

What a coinkidink. Berkeley.

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
When is RHL coming back? [NT]
Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
A job.

At last, however inane, I have a purpose.
I love being constructive.

RogueImage
RogueImage's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 10/17/2001 - 22:22
Cool unused feature

Noone seems to use the new rating feature here. Too bad. It could be nice for filtering lamers.

-RogueImage-
Who gives himself 5/5 =D

-RogueImage-

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Halo & Bungie (long rant)

Hello.

I would like to clear some things out, and if you consider this a flame.......well....you might re-read it . If after re-reading it you still consider it a flame its ok, your IQ is to low or you have been indoctrinated so well that you cant see reality other than the pattern implanted in your brain, in either case it doesn't matter much, your case is lost.

First, my opinion on Microsoft. I don't like Microsoft much and I sure don't like Windows but I don't have any political agenda against them and as a matter of fact I do own a couple of their products. I think Office:Mac is a great product and my browser of choice is Explorer. So I didn't like the fact that Microsoft acquired Bungie but that alone didn't make me an ex-fan. Although Id like to make a point here. I don't care much about Microsoft owning Bungie, but some people do , some people consider it a matter of principles and they consider their principles to be more valuable than a game. Many here have said that its only a game and made fun of the people that are against Microsoft products so Id like to ask them to respect others opinions. For you it might be just a game, for others its a Microsoft product. And if someone believes buying Microsoft products is against their principles, you should respect their opinions and believes.

But going back to HALO and Bungie. In my very humble opinion Bungie was a great company, but what make it great was not Marathon or even Myth I or II per se, it was the community they built around the Myth series. Think about it, how much of the time you were connected to bungie,net were you actually playing?? I would say no more than 30% of the time. And you also enjoyed making maps and sharing them with your friends, you enjoyed downloading maps others did, you enjoyed tournaments, you enjoyed clan wars , etc,etc,etc. And of course you enjoyed getting to know and interacting with people from all over the world. I personally got to know 3 or 4 guys I now consider my friends and I met with them when I traveled to their country. And I bet many here can share this type of experience. This is what made Bungie great and this is why the Myth series is 4 years old and still going. And yes, the games were great also, specially Myth and all the strategy and team gameplay it involves.

So when Bungie announced Halo I was very exited it was going to be the best FPS out there with all the community and internet play Myth had. And the game features were amazing, a huge wold, massive internet play , stunning AI, etc,etc,etc. But none of that will happen. Halo was trimmed down to a console game. And don't get me wrong , I have nothing against consoles , they are great and they have great and fun games, but they simply cant handle (at least not now) the kind of game Halo was intended to be. And please , don't try to say its the same cause its not, for example dont try to convince me that its the same experience and the same precision and speed to look and aim using your hand with a mouse than using your thumb. Its anatomically impossible to have the same degree of control with your thumb than with your hand. And the strategy is gone , its just a nice FPS now. Not to mention coop play that has been reduced to 2 players and one of them wont be able to shoot most of the time cause the AI cant control the jeep. And if you want to archive any kind of multiplayer games you'll have to be stuck with a split screen that will reduce your visual experience a lot and you can forget about ambushing or concealed maneuvers. That or you will have to take 4 Xboxes along with cables , monitors and controls to someone's house and even then you'll be stuck with split screen is you want to play with more than 4 players. And this are only some examples , you all know what Halo could have been and what it is now.

I know most of you will say its still a great game and all that, but for me it was a good idea for a game, I liked a lot of things about it, but its a different game now, and it lost almost all of the features that make me like the idea.
So if you are a Bungie hardcore fan, just like others are hardcore anti-microsoft militants, or if you still like Halo in its final version , its ok buy it, but don't try to say Halo is what it is not.

Of course people will tell me to wait for the Mac/PC version, that it will live to its promises (at least some of them) but I seriously doubt a Mac/PC version will be much different. And I don't know if it will see the light in a decent time frame to make it a choice among all the great multiplayer FPS that are in production. If Halo does show in the Mac/PC platforms in the next months and it lives to some of its promises (at least internet play , customizable controls and some sort of server structure to interact with others) I will be the first to go buy it. But until any of that happens I will be absolutly disappointed at Bungie and Halo and I wont buy it.

Bests, Rauko

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Don't you like cross-site posting? [NT]
Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
A few points...

Rauko wrote on Friday, 10/26/2001 - 06:12:

: Hello.
:
: I would like to clear some things out, and if you consider
: this a flame.......well....you might re-read it . If after
: re-reading it you still consider it a flame its ok, your IQ
: is to low or you have been indoctrinated so well that you
: cant see reality other than the pattern implanted in your
: brain, in either case it doesn't matter much, your case is
: lost.

Uh, ok. So I'm to understand that this post is not I
repeat, not a flame, yet you open with an insult.

Nice.

: First, my opinion on Microsoft. I don't like Microsoft
: much and I sure don't like Windows but I don't have any
: political agenda against them and as a matter of fact I do
: own a couple of their products. I think Office:Mac is a
: great product and my browser of choice is Explorer. So I
: didn't like the fact that Microsoft acquired Bungie but that
: alone didn't make me an ex-fan. Although Id like to make a
: point here. I don't care much about Microsoft owning Bungie,
: but some people do , some people consider it a matter of
: principles and they consider their principles to be more
: valuable than a game. Many here have said that its only a
: game and made fun of the people that are against Microsoft
: products so Id like to ask them to respect others opinions.
: For you it might be just a game, for others its a Microsoft
: product. And if someone believes buying Microsoft products
: is against their principles, you should respect their
: opinions and believes.

Hey, I hate Microsoft, never hidden my contempt for them, doesn't mean
I don't wish Bungie well. And don't hope tons of people buy the game.
And again, not to harp on your opening paragraph a little more, but saying
anyone that doesn't agree with you is either too stupid or too indoctrinated
isn't exactly respecting their opinions either, is it?

: But going back to HALO and Bungie. In my very humble
: opinion Bungie was a great company, but what make it great
: was not Marathon or even Myth I or II per se, it was the
: community they built around the Myth series. Think about it,
: how much of the time you were connected to bungie,net were
: you actually playing?? I would say no more than 30% of the
: time. And you also enjoyed making maps and sharing them with
: your friends, you enjoyed downloading maps others did, you
: enjoyed tournaments, you enjoyed clan wars , etc,etc,etc.
: And of course you enjoyed getting to know and interacting
: with people from all over the world. I personally got to
: know 3 or 4 guys I now consider my friends and I met with
: them when I traveled to their country. And I bet many here
: can share this type of experience. This is what made Bungie
: great and this is why the Myth series is 4 years old and
: still going. And yes, the games were great also, specially
: Myth and all the strategy and team gameplay it involves.

Not really, I was a fan long before Myth, and while the b.net
experience was fun, it wasn't the basis of my appreciation for
Bungie games. Ity may have enhanced it somewhat, but it
was absolutely not what brought me to the table or
even got me to joint the Pax Nimbus, lo those many moons ago.
Hell, if anything, it was the sharing of story info on Hamish's site
that really got me hooked.

: So when Bungie announced Halo I was very exited it was
: going to be the best FPS out there with all the community
: and internet play Myth had. And the game features were
: amazing, a huge wold, massive internet play , stunning AI,
: etc,etc,etc. But none of that will happen. Halo was trimmed
: down to a console game. And don't get me wrong , I have
: nothing against consoles , they are great and they have
: great and fun games, but they simply cant handle (at least
: not now) the kind of game Halo was intended to be. And
: please , don't try to say its the same cause its not, for
: example dont try to convince me that its the same experience
: and the same precision and speed to look and aim using your
: hand with a mouse than using your thumb. Its anatomically
: impossible to have the same degree of control with your
: thumb than with your hand. And the strategy is gone , its
: just a nice FPS now. Not to mention coop play that has been
: reduced to 2 players and one of them wont be able to shoot
: most of the time cause the AI cant control the jeep. And if
: you want to archive any kind of multiplayer games you'll
: have to be stuck with a split screen that will reduce your
: visual experience a lot and you can forget about ambushing
: or concealed maneuvers. That or you will have to take 4
: Xboxes along with cables , monitors and controls to
: someone's house and even then you'll be stuck with split
: screen is you want to play with more than 4 players. And
: this are only some examples , you all know what Halo could
: have been and what it is now.

: I know most of you will say its still a great game and all
: that, but for me it was a good idea for a game, I liked a
: lot of things about it, but its a different game now, and it
: lost almost all of the features that make me like the idea.

Looks like somebody's been looking over my shoulder while I post
on HB.Org... Regardless of whether it is what it was or not, Narcogen
made me realize one important thing, the thing that brought me in,
the story, is still gonna be there. Maybe that doesn't float your boat,
and maybe you're not interested in that aspect, but I and probably
several others are. Does that mean I'm gonna run out and buy a POSBox?
No. but it does mean that I am intrigued by the prospect of adding more
stuff to Hamish's site and watching the legacy grow. That's a valid reason
to support them even if the game isn't all it was originally meant to be.

: So if you are a Bungie hardcore fan, just like others are
: hardcore anti-microsoft militants, or if you still like Halo
: in its final version , its ok buy it, but don't try to say
: Halo is what it is not.

I'm both. and I still say it has the potential to be a great game,
I always have. Is it going to be the end-all-be-all we all originally
wanted? No. But then does anything ever turn out to be that way?

: Of course people will tell me to wait for the Mac/PC
: version, that it will live to its promises (at least some of
: them) but I seriously doubt a Mac/PC version will be much
: different. And I don't know if it will see the light in a
: decent time frame to make it a choice among all the great
: multiplayer FPS that are in production. If Halo does show in
: the Mac/PC platforms in the next months and it lives to some
: of its promises (at least internet play , customizable
: controls and some sort of server structure to interact with
: others) I will be the first to go buy it. But until any of
: that happens I will be absolutly disappointed at Bungie and
: Halo and I wont buy it.

To each their own. Unless it comes out as a horribly botched and
quickly patched port (or something that requires XP), I'll buy several
copies of the Mac/PC version, just to show my support for all of the
people at Bungie, some of whom I once (and still, though their opinions
of me may have changed) friends. If that doesn't work for you, or you
consider that selling out my principles or anything like that, then hey,
that's your opinion and you're welcome to it.

CH

Anonymous (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
The long and the short of it

You know the thing of it is that the first time I saw your post I only read the first paragraph and from that I knew exactly what the rest of it was going to say. I went back and actually read it and I was right. I have seen and read so many of these in the last year that I almost don't have to actually read them to know what they say. With that said here is a little speech about why it really does not matter.

You never owned any part of Halo. That means that when bungie decided to change something about the game they did not have to ask you if it was all right to do so.(I realize that this is a tad crass but far to many rants exactly like the one I am responding to have taken on the tone that they were some how in charge of Halo development and we all know that is not true.) Plus I would like to point out that of the three things that you sited as being no longer present in Halo only one is actually not there, that is internet play. And reading your rant I find that for the most part during your time on bungie.net you spent your time not gaming but chatting. And if thats what you are looking for you have already found it, r.net is an excellent place to get your chat on. Or perhaps you would like to choose some other venue for your chatting, the point is that you can find chat, with other bungie community members, many other places.

Now for my final thought.
You obviously feel betrayed some how and that is perhaps what I don't understand the most. When bungie announced Halo it was basically an announcement that they were going to revisit marathon, I am talking in the artistic manner not the story kind. And I think that this has been accomplished. If you remember Marathon had no net play, but what it did have was an engrossing story and excellent single player action , as well as some fast and furious LAN play. Look, that is exactly what Halo has. So think what you like, but don't decry bungie for not creating the exact game you envisioned they weren't following your vision in the first place.

-Jackolantern

Pages

Topic locked