I'm going to start with a really, really tiny detail and try to use it to come to a sweeping statement about what makes a game fun. The detail we'll start with is weapon spawns in the Halo games: why timers are fair, but not fun, and why slightly random spawns may be unfair, but more fun.
History Repeating
Halo 1's weapons spawned in about the simplest manner possible: on a timer. Every X seconds, in a particular spot, a particular weapon would appear. Legend has it this was done because it was the simplest way possible. One can argue whether or not this is a good thing, but it is easy to understand, transparent, and about as fair as anything can be. Since everyone can know when and where the weapons will be, and the spawn is independent of whether or not anyone else is holding any particular weapon, then theoretically everyone gets, over time, a more or less equal chance to have any of those weapons.
This does introduce a sort of meta-game; a game outside the game. It's a game played with a stopwatch or timer, or with a specialized computer program made expressly for this purpose. It tells you, down to the second, exactly when each important weapon will spawn and where, allowing a player to be there on time, every time.
Of course, this isn't a "push X to win" scenario. Knowing where the weapon is going to be, and when, won't help if you get killed en route. It's not a substitue for the basic skills needed to play the game, namely the ability to navigate the map and the ability to aim a weapon and successfully engage in combat. However, all other things being equal, it does provide a distinct advantage over players who choose not to employ such a strategy, who will wander by power weapon spawns only to find nothing there, because they are too early or too late.
Remote Control
Fast forward to Halo 2's release in 2004, and its new, more complicated, and controversial weapons spawn system. For some weapons, namely the "power weapons" like the sniper rifle and the rocket launcher, the weapon simply will not respawn while someone else on the map is using it. If they're willing to compromise on the ability to carry and use two weapons, they can hold on to a weapon just to prevent its use by other players, and thus "control" that weapon, without the need for a timer. They can influence when the weapon spawns by when they choose to deplete/drop it, and that timing will be known only to them, since the game provides no notice to other players when a power weapon is dropped.
The spawn timing metagame wasn't removed, but only the player who had the weapon last could consistently play it.
Both games provide a means for one player to take advantage over another; the first, by superior knowledge of how the game works, either with or without external assistance, through accurate timing of the spawns. The second provides an advantage at the game from within the game.
In a way, the first method is a way of levelling the playing field. If two players spawn on a map and one is closer to a power weapon than another, when they meet, all other things being equal, the power weapon-wielding player will likely prevail. However, upon respawning, the second player has a reasonable idea of where and weapon that power weapon, or other power weapons, will be available, independently of the actions of the first player, and therefore has a chance to acquire one and thus even the odds in the next encounter. This means of levelling the playing field games from the metagame-- from outside the game itself. Regardless of how high or low your skill at playing the game itself is, you have a better chance of succeeding if you know reliably where and when you can acquire a wepaon superior to the one you spawn with, and that this information cannot be influenced by other players. They can, of course, also have such information and employ it, and attempt to show up and block your access, but the timing and location of the weapon itself cannot be controlled by a player.
First Mover Advantage
Halo 2's system, by comparison, focuses solely on the initial spawn position and proximity to a power weapon, and the relative skills of the players in deploying the weapons they have to determine who has the advantage. All other things being equal, the player who spawns closest to a power weapon will get that weapon first. If he or she is successful in using that weapon to its best advantage, they can prevent that weapon or weapons from being accessed by the other players. The initial advantage granted by the first spawn will be exaggerated over the length of the game.
It is perhaps ironic that while Halo 1 is often looked upon as the more skill-intensive game, that it provides a method to counter the wielders of power weapons with the simple ability to keep time; while Halo 2's focuses solely on the use of weapons. The counter to that, of course, is that Halo 2's power weapons (the rocket launcher in particular) requires less skill to wield but still provides an overpowering advantage. The counter to that is that there are many methods of countering the power weapons (weapon combinations, grenades, stealth) and so on.
However, I think there's an important reason why a simple return to a fixed, time-based spawn system would not be a solution to the ills of Halo 2's weapon spawn system; and I think the fact that it seems the Halo 3 Public Beta does not employ such a system is indicative of this.
Brute Force
As applied to cryptography or game-playing, the concept of "brute force" refers to the application of the quick evaluation of all the possible permutations in a system to reliably arrive at the optimum. In simple systems, this can be done quickly, as in games of tic-tac-toe. The game's depth, it's replayablity, is inversely proportional to the degree to which it is susceptible to being solved by brute force. As it is trivial to arrive at a simple set of rules that describe the optimum move for any player in any game of tic-tac-toe at any time, and that failure of any player to deviate from that game plan results in an endless series of stalemates, the game is essentially broken.
This can also happen in far more complex systems. For a long time it has been speculated that eventually, computer systems will reach the point where even deep games like Chess or Go might be solved by brute force; where the ability of a computer to evaluate all the possible combinations of moves from any initial starting point may result in the "perfect" game; a proscription for a series of moves that will always result in a victory for the side moving first if followed correctly, or perhaps where the best result that can be hoped for by an opponent moving second is a stalemate.
A computer game like Halo, while vastly different from a turn-based game like Chess, can also be susceptible to being "brute forced" as players develop a series of actions that are extremely difficult for opponents to counter and consistently give good results, almost making such actions within a game mandatory.
A weapons spawn system that functions solely on a timer is not only susceptible to this, it practically demands it. A Halo player who is unaware of the spawn timers is handicapping him or herself. So the question for the developer becomes whether or not they want this willingness to use a timer to be one of the skills that playing the game is supposed to take into account; whether the ability to use a timing system, and the willingness to follow its edicts in order to maintain weapons superiority, is a trait that should be rewarded by the game.
Out Of Chaos Comes Order
The best solution is most likely dirty, controversial, decidedly non-transparent, but likely immune to brute force: randomization. Spawn power weapons at random intervals. Spawn power weapons at intervals that are sometimes randomized with reference to when they were last spawned, or to when they were last dropped. This actually gives players more choice. They aren't forced, if they are within range, to check a spawn point for a power weapon just because they know (and every other player knows) that it will become available at that point. Neither are they prohibited from having access to a weapon merely because another player is still using it. If they are near a spawn, they have to measure the potential benefit of having the power weapon against the risk presented by traveling to that spot and the risk of the wepaon not being there. Because this is not a predictable system that can be brute forced, there is not a single sequence of decisions that will always lead to victory. You can make the same choices in a different game, from the same initial position, and get a different result because of the random element.
Nobody said it would be fair; but perhaps the point is that fair and fun don't always intersect.
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Comments
jaywhy
Let me add to this...
I'll add to your analysis of the Halo 2 system. At high-end levels of play it really breaks down. Evidence of this was apparent at the MLG Philly tournament a couple years back. MLG, because of Halo50k, have always done their Philadelphia tournaments as team slayer only. I attended this tournament. To put it lightly it did not work. Evident in the fact that they haven't done it again. MLG should have just lit camp-fires and gave out marshmallows. The strategy was simple: get the power weapons and camp. Most games timed out and ended in scores of 30-35. This was completely a consequence of a broken weapon spawn system.
Going on to your assessment of the Halo 1 system, I just disagree with you here. I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. I'd first like to say, in one respect, you're correct. The Halo 1 system can handicap a single team who doesn't know or care to know how it works. This could be curbed however by the matchmaking system or simply making it a customizable option. Doing this would make the so called “brute force” tactic negligible or not factor at all.
With all this being said, I think you failed to see what timing brings to the game compared to any other method. It isn't just fairness as you stated. Weapons spawning at known intervals force people not to camp. And if you do camp, you won't get the power weapons and you'll lose. Also most importantly, what timing does is give an ebb and flow to the gameplay. It is a constant creation of set plays all over the map. It is sort of like the last minute of a basketball game except much more complex and minus the damn timeouts. It adds incredible amount of depth to the game.
I could go on. I guess with this in mind maybe watch this:
http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/g2zXVfhsalsEXANA.html
The camo and overshield spawn every minute and the rocket every two. Watch the clock and what the players are doing on those intervals. Notice how the game isn't just about points on a map. It isn't just about getting up to the top level of Damnation and camping. It just as much about controlling powerup spawns. Watch how the gameplay develops before and when those powerups spawn. When you look for it. You can really see the moves and counter-moves trying to control those spawns. This would not exist in a randomized weapon spawn system. You can't create set plays or set fights, if the time set for them is random.
narcogen
Brute Flow
In reply to: Let me add to this...[quote=jaywhy]I'll add to your analysis of the Halo 2 system. At high-end levels of play it really breaks down. Evidence of this was apparent at the MLG Philly tournament a couple years back. MLG, because of Halo50k, have always done their Philadelphia tournaments as team slayer only. I attended this tournament. To put it lightly it did not work. Evident in the fact that they haven't done it again. MLG should have just lit camp-fires and gave out marshmallows. The strategy was simple: get the power weapons and camp. Most games timed out and ended in scores of 30-35. This was completely a consequence of a broken weapon spawn system.
Going on to your assessment of the Halo 1 system, I just disagree with you here. I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. I'd first like to say, in one respect, you're correct. The Halo 1 system can handicap a single team who doesn't know or care to know how it works. This could be curbed however by the matchmaking system or simply making it a customizable option. Doing this would make the so called “brute force” tactic negligible or not factor at all.
With all this being said, I think you failed to see what timing brings to the game compared to any other method. It isn't just fairness as you stated. Weapons spawning at known intervals force people not to camp. And if you do camp, you won't get the power weapons and you'll lose. Also most importantly, what timing does is give an ebb and flow to the gameplay. It is a constant creation of set plays all over the map. It is sort of like the last minute of a basketball game except much more complex and minus the damn timeouts. It adds incredible amount of depth to the game.[/quote]
I'll take that with a couple of friendly amendments: timed spawns create timed camping. It's like camping term limits. It doesn't stop you from camping, it just means you have to leave your camping spot at regular intervals either to resupply, or at least prevent your weapon of choice from falling into the wrong hands.
It doesn't prevent camping on a weapon spawn itself, though. The limiting factor there would be the assumption that the one place where everyone in the map will converge on simultaneously doesn't make a good camping spot, since camping is based on the idea of isolating targets unawares due to your non-movement.
You're right about ebb and flow, but those things are not caused by having spawns at regular intervals. They're caused by the lack of weapon control. What I think would be superior is a spawn system that lacks both rigid regularity and control. A weapon that respawns sometime between 0:45 and 1:15 after it last spawned has some advantages from both systems. It prevents one player from monopolizing a weapon or influencing when it spawns, but it also eliminates the timing metagame.
That's what I really object to-- clock-watching as a mini-game in Halo. However, I am decidedly on the non-competetive side of this; what works or doesn't work in an MLG competition has little or nothing to do with what I consider fun or good design. Because I'm out to have fun, and if I win, it's icing on the cake. Watching a timer might make me more likely to win, but in and of itself is not particularly fun, and is not something I care to make part of my Halo-playing experience. When play becomes more like work is where I part ways with it, but as always, YMMV.
[quote=jaywhy]I could go on. I guess with this in mind maybe watch this:
http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/g2zXVfhsalsEXANA.html
The camo and overshield spawn every minute and the rocket every two. Watch the clock and what the players are doing on those intervals. Notice how the game isn't just about points on a map. It isn't just about getting up to the top level of Damnation and camping. It just as much about controlling powerup spawns. Watch how the gameplay develops before and when those powerups spawn. When you look for it. You can really see the moves and counter-moves trying to control those spawns. This would not exist in a randomized weapon spawn system. You can't create set plays or set fights, if the time set for them is random.[/quote]
That kind of cycling has been going on since Quake, though. I suppose if one really derives a sort of aesthetic pleasure from executing these movements, or watching skilled players execute these movements, it might be interesting. However, what you are calling ebb and flow I'd call the necessary end result of brute force: the game has fallen into a set of patterns that the design of the map mandates because playing any other way is suboptimal; the decisions are removed from the equation and all that is left is execution.
Thanks for taking the time to reply; I think it's an interesting and deep subject.
Rampant for over se7en years.
jaywhy
I don't think this has to be
In reply to: Brute FlowI don't think this has to be us vs. them, a competitive play vs. non-competitive play. Timing doesn't have to be an absolute. Like I said it could easily be an option.
You know the whole timing, pistol, H1 thing it may not be fun to you. But have you actually really given it a try? This may not be a fair attack or true of you. However for most part, I've found most people who knock the "competitive", for lack of a better word, aspects of H1 gameplay. Really never played it that way in the first place. Their only knowledge of timing, the pistol, etc are of playing guys who beat them 50-5. And of course, losing that bad will not be fun. It is really just from this experience they infer the "competitive" aspects of H1 are unbalanced and not fun. It is not from first-hand experience that they come to this conclusion. Until people have really given it a shot. I don't think you can say the gameplay isn't fun.
[quote=narcogen]That kind of cycling has been going on since Quake, though. I suppose if one really derives a sort of aesthetic pleasure from executing these movements, or watching skilled players execute these movements, it might be interesting. However, what you are calling ebb and flow I'd call the necessary end result of brute force: the game has fallen into a set of patterns that the design of the map mandates because playing any other way is suboptimal; the decisions are removed from the equation and all that is left is execution.[/quote]
I think your taking you idea to far. The game, no matter what, is going to fall into patterns anyways.
If timing is out. It's totally based on map design and what particular segments of the map have strategic advantages. Timing adds something another layer of complexity to those patterns if you will. Like I said in my previous post, it isn't just about points on a map anymore.